S2 E38: 💼 No BS Advice If Your Self-Esteem Is Getting Hammered in the Job Market
EPISODE SUMMARY
Facing rejection after rejection in today's brutal job market? You're not alone and you deserve more than "just practice self-care" advice. In this episode of The Money Healing Club podcast, host Rachel Duncan teams up with career advancement coach Shannon Bowen to tackle a raw listener question: How do you keep your self-esteem intact when the job market keeps saying no? They dive deep into what's really going on in today's job market, why generic resumes don't cut it anymore, and how to stand out when hundreds of people are applying for the same position. Plus, they share unconventional income ideas, the power of getting hyper-specific about your strengths, and why the hiring process has become a trust-building exercise on both sides.
💬 "Your core value—you also have to find ways to feed your value. If you're not getting that external validation through a job and a job offer and all these things, you just have to work harder to feed that well of self-esteem."
Key Takeaways:
• Get radically specific about your unique strengths instead of using generic phrases like "mission-driven professional"
• Add statistics and proof points to every resume bullet point to build trust
• Customize your cover letter like a love letter to each organization
• Ask 3-5 friends: "What three words would you use to describe me?" Use their answers in your materials
• Don't self-select out of jobs with 10-30% uncertainty. Interview to find out what's negotiable
• Send thank-you notes after every interview (still matters!)
• Consider charging for work product requests during interviews
• Build a fallback plan with side income ideas that work for you
About Shannon Bowen:
Shannon Bowen is a career advancement coach, job search strategist, and "salary whisperer" who helps professionals land jobs they love at salaries that support their actual lives. As CEO of Monsoon Leadership and co-president of AFP Advancement Northwest, she brings insider knowledge from years as a nonprofit C-suite leader. When she's not coaching clients through negotiations, she's DIY-ing her house, tending to 50+ houseplants, or planning her next foodie vacation.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN:
03:00 | The Hard Truth About Today's Job Market Why the job search process has fundamentally changed and what hiring managers are really worried about
10:30 | Making Your Resume Actually Stand Out How to get specific, ditch the clichés, and use proof points to build trust from page one
18:00 | Fallback Plans That Aren't BS Practical side income ideas and why having your own thing matters for your mental health and wallet
25:00 | The Secret Weapon: Your Authentic Strengths How being hyper-specific about what makes you you attracts the right opportunities (and repels the wrong ones)
📚 Resources Mentioned
Episode 16 of The Money Healing Club podcast: Shannon's previous appearance on salary negotiation and networking
Monsoon Leadership, Shannon's coaching company: monsoonleadership.com
☎️ Join the Conversation!
Have you been in a brutal job search? What strategies have actually worked for you? Or maybe you have your own money question you'd like Rachel and a guest expert to tackle? Click on the big orange button on our site right from your phone or browser and leave a voicemail about your job search experience or your burning money question: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
🎧 Your next listen:
Episode 16: Salary Negotiation Secrets with Shannon Bowen 💫
🌟 Want more help?
🤑 Free Email Course: Curb impulse spending with compassion and mindfulness at moneyhealingclub.com/challenge
-
💼 No BS Advice If Your Self-Esteem Is Getting Hammered in the Job Market
[00:00:00]
Rachel Duncan: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist, and you've come to the softest place to land in personal finance and a big part of our personal finance is our work. Our jobs, and right now this is recording in November of 2025.
The job market is objectively rough, so I received a compelling listener question about how to get through the job market and facing a lot of rejection. So I knew I needed to bring back the big guns, the expert in the field, my buddy Shannon Bowen. Shannon was on this podcast earlier this year to talk about salary negotiation and networking, lots of stuff.
You can go back and check that in episode 16.
Shannon Bowen is a career advancement coach, job search strategist [00:01:00] and salary whisperer who coaches professionals on how to ace their job search and step into a higher salary band. She's also a former non-profit C-suite leader, and currently is the CEO of her company, Monsoon Leadership, the co-president for AFP Advancement Northwest Board of Directors and a trainer for AFP Global NTEN and more.
Shannon, also DIY designs her house. You'll notice her zoom background. She tends to her 50 plus house plants, cook gourmet meals, and plans her next foodie vacay. If you'd like to reach out to Shannon about career coaching, salary negotiation, and more, go to monsoonleadership.com.
And in this episode, Shannon and I put our heads and hearts together to reply to this listener question about how to keep going in a job market where you're experiencing just a lot of rejection. But staying on the practical side of all of this, I think you'll hear a lot of compassion as well as a bit of cold, hard truth from me and Shannon.
[00:02:00] So let's talk about what we don't usually say when we talk about applying for jobs with Shannon Bowen.
Oh my gosh, I almost forgot to say this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. For help with your particular situation, please seek help from a licensed mental health tax, legal, or finance professional. Alright, on with the show.
Hi. My question is how do you navigate? When you're in a situation where you need money and you're looking for a job and you know the job market is tough, how do you navigate keeping your self-esteem positive and not feeling like crap? So, you know, the job market's bad. You know, it's not just you, everybody's looking for a job, but yet you still need money to come in.
And because you don't have money, you don't have resources. You don't [00:03:00] feel fulfilled because you're not being chosen, essentially. Am I making sense? I think that's my question. How do we not feel bad about ourselves when we don't have money? And maybe an answer that's not just something about looking inside yourself, like there has to be something else because we've looked inside ourselves and it's not working.
'cause we have no money.
Rachel Duncan: Hi Shannon. Thank you for being here to answer this amazing listener question, which I think I would paraphrase as this. How do I keep my self-esteem up about not getting chosen? But don't give me any bs.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, we're not gonna talk about self care and bubble baths and breathing 'cause that only. Gets you so far.
Rachel Duncan: That don't pay the bills. People, we get that like Shannon and I completely get that, even
Shannon Bowen: Money is real.
Rachel Duncan: but like what I've been saying is like money [00:04:00] is both energy and it buys your groceries. So like it's both. Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. Yeah, and I think, you know, right now the job market is different. It's been funky this year especially, you know, my whole career is at nonprofits. I work with a lot, lot of nonprofit clients, which has been very hit hard this year with funding cuts, but it's rippling out into all different fields.
And so sometimes people like to build this up as this villain. Oh, I can't. I can't switch jobs Now. The job market's too hard. It's this big, bad, scary thing. It is harder, but it is not impossible. And I agree with the caller that it's like. You could tell yourself you're amazing all day long, but if you're not getting the interviews, if you're not getting the jobs, what I'm gonna say is there's something wrong in the process, and it is not.
If you were just copy pasting your resume from 2019 and earlier and thinking it's gonna play, it's not going to, it's a lot more strategic now. You [00:05:00] have to really position your strengths, your experience, and your approach to work. Because there's this high level of suspicion that's happening from hiring managers right now that I think started with all the job shifts in 2020 and job hopping that now hiring managers are like, do you really want this job?
Are you gonna stay? Are you really who you say you are? You know, give me proof points. So if they're adding more interviews and more things to make to be totally sure. So it's longer, it's more convoluted and job seekers who are not really clearly talking about what they're gonna bring to this specific role are not getting interviews or they're getting a couple interviews and they're not getting to the offer stage.
You have to try harder and more strategically now.
Rachel Duncan: That's some hard truth
Shannon Bowen: And that's what I would say
Rachel Duncan: And don't you think trust has
Shannon Bowen: it is.
Rachel Duncan: also been eroded on both sides? It's like, I need a job but I don't want to work
Shannon Bowen: Yes, absolutely.
Rachel Duncan: for you. And if that's coming
Shannon Bowen: Yep.
Rachel Duncan: [00:06:00] through, that's, that's also coming in like the interpersonal stuff going on there with like,
Shannon Bowen: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: There's broken trust on both sides.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. I mean, nobody really likes working. Because it hasn't worked for us as humans trying to just live our lives for a while. But I think the pandemic really put a mirror up to like what's not working. So yeah, on the job seeker side, I'm seeing people being so picky that they're self-selecting out of so many jobs to even apply for, because they're making these judgments based on the job descriptions.
And I have to tell people that was not carefully written. I've been in these rooms, they're like, copy, paste, put it back up on the website. Just add, add, add. They're not thinking consciously about the effect on an applicant, so you have to get into the interviews and find out what are the real priorities in this job?
Okay? Maybe this can be phased out. You can also negotiate your workload at the verbal offer stage and say, you know, there's a lot in this job description. How would we think about phasing [00:07:00] this out together? What are the top priorities? Instead of, you know, a lot of times people just being like, oh, that's too much.
I'm not even gonna apply. Well, then you'll never know if it's gonna be the right fit. You find out more in interviews than you ever do through a job description, job announcement.
Rachel Duncan: Gotcha. Okay. So
Shannon Bowen: But there's trust eroded on both sides though. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Okay. So it sounds like step one, if you're out there looking and you see some, see some job postings that like are maybe in your field or a little bit interesting, but you're like, Ugh, I don't like a lot of this. Like you're kind of saying like still pursue it
Shannon Bowen: it's enough there if you, if it hits your top priorities of, you know, money, title type of work, flexibility and the projects that you like to do, and maybe there's like 10 to 30%, you're like, eh, I don't know. That 10 to 30% may not even matter, to be honest, once you get in the job.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: And so I wouldn't self-select too much [00:08:00] out, because then you just miss the opportunity to kind of, you know, when you get into a job, you kind of co-create that position together all over again.
So you wanna give yourself that opportunity. But there's a lot of trust, a road on both sides. And at the end of the day, we still have to work. You know, we have to work for so many decades.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: It's overwhelming, exhausting, and kind of demoralizing. So if you're in a long job search, that's even harder because you know it's exhausting and you're getting a lot of no's.
And then you're also building up this idea of a perfect job. And I don't believe in a perfect job. I believe there's the right job for you right now, but I don't believe in the perfect job. And if you're waiting for the perfect job, I don't think it exists
jobs are run by humans.
Rachel Duncan: A very wise person was told me, your, your job will always disappoint you.
Shannon Bowen: Yes. Was that me? Because I say that.
Rachel Duncan: That was you. Yes, and I love that.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, I always say, congrats on your new job. In three, in three months, you'll be disappointed by something, but if you really [00:09:00] ground in who you are and what you want, then you know that this job is just a job. It's not where you get all your value. It's not your identity.
It's not all these other things. It's what you do to earn money to afford your life. And then you can do volunteering or art or hobbies, or you're just the person that always organizes everybody's birthdays, whatever it is that you drive a lot of value from. And so, you know, for job seekers who are feeling super demoralized, buy all the nos, buy the ghosting.
I first off, it's rude out there right now. There's so much ghosting. There's so much misinformation out there. The hiring managers have a lot of power right now. Because the job market is flooded with applicants, with all the government layoffs, we've got all these people that have not been in this job market before because they've been working 20 years in government.
Well, surprise they're here now.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: So it's just, it is more difficult and it requires more effort and more strategy and more specificity to stand out and get the interviews.[00:10:00]
Rachel Duncan: So let's talk about this. What would you say are like maybe some top five tips if you're like, okay, we gotta look at this resume again. and you say, really bringing out strengths. And obviously everyone's, most everyone's probably using AI to help them with their resume.
Shannon Bowen: Of course, which I, I agree with. I think that's a good tool.
Rachel Duncan: What would be kind of like a checklist? If you're looking at someone's resume, what are some easy grabs to really punch it up and make yours stand out, make it stronger for the job you're applying for?
Shannon Bowen: Well, do you sound like everybody else? I'm a mission-driven professional with 10 years of experience, get in line. So does everybody else. What does that even mean? Mission-driven professional at this point. So. Yeah, so I think that this is where it's taking more effort. How do you get more specific, like if you're a natural at collaborating across teams and you have some stories of getting like groups that would never talk to each other, to like do an amazing project together.
Let's, let's highlight that. [00:11:00] If you're a detail driven person who can spot errors and streamlined processes, like let's get that in there because. As a hiring manager who's built a lot of teams, sometimes you're looking for someone who more fits the approach You need more than the skills and experience.
If I got a team of all visionary brainstorm people, I'm in desperate need of a detail oriented independent person who can execute on tasks. But if I never hear that, that's part of what you can do because you're hiding behind generic language that you think people wanna hear. Then you're never specific enough to actually feel like they can trust you to hire you.
And I always say that hiring is a trust building exercise, and part of that is being specific about the authenticity of what you bring to a role.
Rachel Duncan: I think because often if you're playing for like a medium or small size company, the people who are interviewing you are your coworkers or would
Shannon Bowen: Right?
Rachel Duncan: direct report. I mean, you know, sometimes yes, in really big companies you're being interviewed with people [00:12:00] you'll never work with, but that's usually it's, there's a lot more going on.
Like, would I like to work with this person? That's even if a hiring manager isn't supposed to think that that's there, right.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. And are you really interacting with their 10 years of experience on a daily basis, or are you interacting with that they know how to take good notes in a meeting. So, you know, sometimes we have to talk about how we approach the work, and that specificity helps you stand out and be competitive. And then also from the self-esteem standpoint, which a lot of that call was like.
How do I keep going? Which I get it. It sucks right now, and people are unemployed longer than their unemployment benefits and money's getting really tough. So that is real, and I just wanna honor that. If you really work on developing, describing your specific strengths, it does help you feel confident in the value that you bring.
You will negotiate better at the end because you know exactly what specific value you bring and how you're [00:13:00] gonna help this organization reach its goals. So yeah, that extra 10 K will help everybody reach their goals. So I do believe that it's more than just fluffy, oh, I'm good at this, you know? Isn't that great?
I think it's actually like if you can root in. The specificity of your strengths, you are more likely to get the job and more likely to negotiate for the salary that you really need at this time in your life.
Rachel Duncan: It sounds like you want us to be quirky, honestly.
Shannon Bowen: Unique. There's so many, there's such a flood right now of applicants that actually to stand out is kind of the first thing you need to do. Now, don't be like wild and do wild things, but you know, like. There's just more resumes that are coming in the door and resumes are boring. They're like newspapers.
They're outdated and boring. So how can you bring some specificity and interest Also, like don't bore people. I, this is something I talk a lot about with my clients, like write a cover letter that feels like a [00:14:00] human wrote it. Put some specific stuff in your resume that's interesting to read because. We haven't evolved these systems and they don't quite work for our Twitter size brains, so we have to put a little intrigue in there to keep the reader reading.
And that's why LinkedIn works so much better because there's so many different facets to it that it's kind of more interesting to our brains that crave a lot of variety. But the cover letter and resume is a challenge. And so how do you bring a sentence that stands out and they're like, Ooh, I wanna bring them in.
I wanna hear more about that. That's intriguing.
Rachel Duncan: What I
Shannon Bowen: Kind of got an intrigue
Rachel Duncan: think the cover letter is such a good opportunity to be like, I'm applying for your job and not applying for
Shannon Bowen: exactly.
Rachel Duncan: like a little bit. What do you know about this company? What do you identify with? Is there a connection, like show that you've done a little homework that
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, it's a little bit of a love letter to the organization. So you know, your cover letter, you wanna spend more time customizing than your resume. And we have the AI tools now. It really helps. I mean, you wanna make sure it sounds like a [00:15:00] human in the end. I mean, we all know the M dash. We know we're getting better spotting ai, so you still have to put the human.
Slant on it. But yeah, you can make it really custom to them. And so they feel that, oh, okay, they wanna apply for my job, which is also this fear of retention. Well, if they just sent this letter to everyone, they don't want this job, they're not gonna retain in this job. And so you're already proving that like, Hey, I want this job.
I'm gonna retain in it. 'cause I, I think retention's one of the number one things hiring managers are worried about right now. Will this person stay?
Rachel Duncan: Right, and this company gonna make it worth it for me to stay? And that's the opportunity of negotiation
Shannon Bowen: Oh yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Make it worth it for me to stay
Shannon Bowen: Yes,
Rachel Duncan: and this is what it's gonna take for me
Shannon Bowen: absolutely.
Rachel Duncan: to stay.
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm. And you've already done that matchmaking exercise throughout the whole interview process. So at the end it's like, okay, here's the numbers that make sense from my perspective of what I'm looking for to come in excited day one and retain.
Rachel Duncan: Okay.
Shannon Bowen: [00:16:00] But, yeah, I mean, I think that it's, it's a, it's a longer process right now, so stamina is important.
Rachel Duncan: is, and it is kind of a test of stamina, which really sucks. I've heard of
Shannon Bowen: Yeah,
Rachel Duncan: so many folks just going through many rounds of interviews
Shannon Bowen: mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: yeah, I've heard, I actually think you may have suggested this, and I've suggested to clients that if you are asked to do a work product as part of the interview that you charge for it. That's a professional fee. And I've had a couple clients do that and not working out. and it also sets such a good financial boundary if you are being asked,
Shannon Bowen: Yes.
Rachel Duncan: to do free work.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. Yeah. I think that, and the savvy employers are doing it, but most are not savvy. So yeah, I think requesting that is a great way to say, you know, I would love to do this and we could do an hourly rate for this.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, I think that sounds good.
Rachel Duncan: Okay. As we think about the cover letter, love letter. I love thinking about that resume combo. We want your strengths to be really specific, personality driven. Let's get rid of the [00:17:00] cliches. What else? As we think about like the meat of the resume, would you advise people to like, have it stand out and we're not talking about fun formatting, we're not talking about that.
Shannon Bowen: Nobody hires a template, so I don't care about your template as long as it's easy to read. You know, minimum of 11 point font. You know, we, we all have aging eyes. But you know, the template can be whatever you want. You could put as much flare into it or not. The other thing I like to tell people is to have a lot of statistics in there, especially under your experience, bullet points.
You wanna have statistics of success and these are your proof points. Again, knowing and we're in this time of high skepticism, that you have these proof points of, yeah, yes, I've done that. I've project managed that we increase the retention rate by this percent. I manage a portfolio of this size. Oh, okay.
Well, they can manage a portfolio of this size at our organization. That specificity and the statistics of success are proof points and they build trust and you want to build trust from the beginning. If [00:18:00] they trust you, they will bring you in. If you're forgettable and generic and vague, they're not gonna bring you in 'cause they got.
Hundreds of applicants. I mean, right now it's wild. People are saying, okay, you can apply up to this date, and then they're pulling it down within a couple days because they're flooded with applicants.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. I'm also thinking about fallback plans, right?
Shannon Bowen: Oh, yes. I wanted to talk about that.
Rachel Duncan: so this person is, I'm assuming or is applying for a professional job and that's great and keep doing that, but yeah, how do we keep going when, when applying for jobs itself can be a full-time job? And yeah, I have some thoughts about that.
So what, what do you think about fallback plans?
Shannon Bowen: Well, you and I both started as side businesses, and so we believe in the power of creating your own income, and I think partly why I started my coaching businesses as side business to start is I never trusted my employer. To retain me and I have a lot of high financial needs. I've got aging parents that I manage everything for them.
I can't be without a job, so I always [00:19:00] needed a plan B in the back of my pocket. Now that is hard for some people that are, they have a lot of time that is being sucked up with caretaking or other tasks or things. Not everybody has the luxury of time, so I just wanna be honest about that. But if you do have time to start building something that is yours.
Consulting side gig. You know, doing graphic design and charging a little bit, building your brand slowly. You don't even have to have a website. You could just do like a LinkedIn or an Instagram and like an email address, which is all free. You can start really small a that will help you with combating the demoralization that's happening from the job search, and you will own something that is yours and you will have some cash flow.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, I think, there have been a couple times in my career where I've just sat down and made a big brain dump of all the ways I could make money. It doesn't mean I'm
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, I love that.
Rachel Duncan: just like, well, what could I do? I can organize garages, I can do childcare, I can do, [00:20:00] you know, at a, a certain point, this is not career stuff.
It is
Shannon Bowen: it's just extra.
Rachel Duncan: it's kind of extra stuff. And it might not be all like personal brand stuff, but like things that you could do that are still kind of your own thing. might be an element of enjoyability or maybe not, I don't know, but like, things you could do to make more money and, and it might not be the most glamorous stuff, but it also might be some quirky stuff that you love to do.
Shannon Bowen: What was the weirdest one on your list? I'm curious.
Rachel Duncan: I have done so many weird jobs.
Shannon Bowen: Me too.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Oh, I should pull. I should pull it out. I mean, I think organizing other people's garages. I do think
Shannon Bowen: I liked that one
Rachel Duncan: give, give me a few hundred bucks in a day. I will make that thing sing and I would love it. So like I love
Shannon Bowen: and people will pay you on cash for that, which is great.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. And it's so satisfying.
It's a win-win, like a one-off one day project, you know? So yeah, I would do that.
Shannon Bowen: Well, and the weirdest way that I've made money on the side is I taught ballroom dance for a lot of years and I [00:21:00] choreographed people's first wedding dance, and I did that for like 20 years and did that on the side, but it always brought in extra income. So I knew that I wouldn't miss a friend's wedding.
Or, you know, those extra pieces of income I needed because I worked in nonprofits, so there wasn't a lot I could do on salary for a minute, until I started to increase my income. So that's how I made up for it. So I would also say to this caller, that's really feeling like don't let the job search erode your self-esteem.
Your core value, but you also have to find ways to feed your value. If you're not getting that external validation through a job and a job offer and all these things, you just have to work harder to feed that well of self-esteem. Because I know you're talented. I know that there's gonna be a team that's gonna be so excited to hire you, and I know you will get another job, but it just may take longer and it may be harder, and it might take more effort.
So how do you feed that? Well. And feel [00:22:00] like I'm good at stuff, you'd be lucky to hire me instead of just, you don't wanna act from desperation 'cause no good decisions come from that.
Rachel Duncan: It made me think of when I was first doing online dating and I did
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: I did meet my husband this way, and I was, you know, making a profile is the same thing, right? Dating, job search
Shannon Bowen: Yep.
Rachel Duncan: And I heard this somewhere and I can't, don't remember where, but I texted my best friends. I said, what are the three words you would use to describe me? And I got these super specific, sometimes surprising. List of incredible adjectives. And so one of them was ebullient,
Shannon Bowen: Ooh.
Rachel Duncan: people have to look up well, a lot of people do. And, and I used it in my profile and it really stood, stood out and I would never have thought of that. And so I wonder if that
Shannon Bowen: Very similar to your resume.
Rachel Duncan: Right, and that could be kind of a good thing. You know, people you've worked with also just like close friends, people who know you well. What are three words you'd [00:23:00] use to describe me? Now you've got this cool bank of like, hyper-specific. I mean, there's gonna be some stuff like you're responsible and da da da. But like there could be some, a super specific stuff. Stuff that you wouldn't have thought of. I wouldn't have described me like that, but this is how you come across. These are your strengths that come across to people who love you. And then what if every person says something about like, how punctual you are?
I don't know. And like, oh, if everyone's saying that, that's like a remarkable strength of mine. How could I work that into like I, 'cause I think we take for granted, I think, here's the thing that I learned. I took a class in career counseling in grad school. The thing about our strengths is we don't see them because they're easy for us.
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: We see what we've struggled with,
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: like things that are just easy for you are easy for you. So you're not gonna account for how valuable that is. And I do think getting some feedback from people you've worked with, people in your world, they'll, they see your strengths 'cause they think it's remarkable.
You're always on time or whatever quirk it
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. [00:24:00] Yeah, no, I think that's such a great example. And like you could send a Google form to people. You could even make it anonymous and they could, you know, respond to that. You could put it through AI and say, Hey, take these strengths and write me three specific highlights of qualifications, bullet points for my resume to show the skills that I have across all jobs.
Or you can ask people to write you recommendations on LinkedIn, which the best way to ask is to write them a recommendation on LinkedIn and ask them to, reciprocate. And then you can take that language, run it through AI and have it pull out bullet points. But you're so right. If I'm a hiring manager and I'm hiring a coordinator on my team and you know, you know, rated number one, you know, first team member to always show up early to the team lunch or something, you know, for punctuality, look at, that's kind of interesting.
I wanna bring them in in here more. Or like instead of writing like, oh, I'm a systems builder. I'm a systems architect. [00:25:00] That's interesting. You know, there's just little tweaks of words that bring a specificity and a power to your language, and that energy attracts other energy. And so I would say like if you're at a place where you're sitting in applications and you're not getting interviews, take a look at your materials.
Get more and more specific. It always works with my clients, the more specific they get. The more interviews they get
Rachel Duncan: I love that,
Shannon Bowen: Every time. And then if you're in interviews. Yeah. Authentically. Yeah. I mean really like, so language I've used on my resume forever is I'm a creative risk taker because if you want someone who's just gonna plug and play the same old stuff, I'm not your person.
I'm gonna come in and be like, I got a wild idea. And so being upfront about that, I attracted work environments where they wanted me to come up with ideas that are a little off the wall. Like, what if we did a podcast? What if we did this video series? Instead of being at a place where they're like, just stick to the plan because that's not a [00:26:00] good fit for me either.
Rachel Duncan: Right. I, you know, I think another thing that can happen, I've heard these stories a lot of like, well, you know, I got through a few interviews. I didn't get the job,
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: because we hit it off, they re, they kept me in mind and there was a different job that was better for me.
Shannon Bowen: Oh yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Stick sticking to what you're really good at we get such a higher return on investment from working with our strengths and being clear about.
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: clear about what you're great at and what you're not so good at, and, and you'll be memorable when there's other positions open or even another position open at that time. So,
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, I mean, so I've even done this as a hiring manager where maybe I didn't hire that final candidate and I recommended them to another peer that was hiring because. They were specific about who they were and I valued it, but it didn't quite fit my team and what I needed at that time, so I forwarded them on to someone else.
So absolutely creating that positive relationship throughout the interview process. Being specific. Also, sometimes they come back and say, well, I actually was gonna hire this other [00:27:00] position on the team that I think it'd be great for. So you might get hired as a different position or. Sometimes hiring managers make that other hire, it's a mistake, and then they come back to you six months later and offer you the job.
And that's happened to three of my clients. So you never know. But the more you root in your authentic strengths, not only makes you more competitive, but it also makes sure it's a better fit for you because retention is this big thing right now in the job market. You don't wanna just accept any job and you're only gonna be there a year.
There's so much nitpicking about job hopping right now. More so in the last year than I've seen in years. So really trying to find a place that you can retain for about three years is gonna help you in the long run, especially if you had a couple stints of, you know, one to three years in a row, probably because of toxic bosses or shifts during the pandemic and all valid reasons.
But it makes it a little harder right now because of this [00:28:00] retention emphasis.
Rachel Duncan: Let's talk about then the post interview. I, we may have talked about this in the other episode, but it's worth repeating. I think the art of the thank you note is so important in this process. What are your thoughts on that?
Shannon Bowen: People really get focused on it. So I have hiring managers that'll call me and be like, I wanna hire this person, but they never send a thank you note. And what does that say? So, you know, just send the thank you note is how I feel. Whether you feel like you should or not, just do it because it's just another feather in your cap and your competitiveness for the role.
But I think it also shows that you value their time as much as they value your time and you can reiterate things. So maybe you kinda bunged a question and you didn't get that specificity in there you wanted. You can actually address it in the Thank you. You know, I just wanted to add to that answer that I gave and that actually here's some statistics of how that project went.
So you can use this as a strategic moment to bolster your claim that you're the right person for this job. You know, some people are like, well, why should I have to [00:29:00] write a thank you when it's like, you know, I'm giving them my time to do it. And I hear that it's not a fair system. The job search system is not fair.
It is not even. You kind of have to play the game sometimes, so just play it in a way that feels good enough for you, that you feel like you're not, you know, you don't wanna be like, you know, hiring manager saviorism, like, you're the best in the world and I can't wait for this job, but like, show up as yourself, but show appreciation and just keep building your strategic competitiveness in the, in the process so that you land the job.
Rachel Duncan: It's an opportunity to show some of your personality. Uh,
Shannon Bowen: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: was there something funny that happened in the interview? Right? Just like without being cheesy, I think there is a way
Shannon Bowen: Totally.
Rachel Duncan: to connect that. I mean, I may have said this also in our other episode. In my previous career, we were bet we were deciding between two candidates and one of them sent a lovely card. And,
Shannon Bowen: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: that person had, you know, the good social skills that we needed in this position. And like that went a long way. And it was the deciding factor. So,
Shannon Bowen: [00:30:00] It was a tactic that worked.
Rachel Duncan: you're right, the older folks might appreciate that more than the younger, but just do it. Who doesn't like getting a thank you note? Come on.
Shannon Bowen: Have AI write it. It's two seconds. You know? I mean, I just feel like knowing that this job market is more complicated and you have to be more strategic. Just use every advantage you can.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: If you know someone that's at that, business or organization, reach out to them and let them know that you applied.
You know, I think that working every angle will help you because it is, it's a weird one right now.
Rachel Duncan: It is a weird one,
Shannon Bowen: Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan: Shannon, I think. I think this has been a very efficient and effective. Little group coaching for this person who isn't on the call. I hope the person who left this voicemail hears this wisdom. And I think we, did not get into bullshit of like self-actualization and self-care, even though that's there too. But that's not all that we need to hear. Actually, I was just talking to a mom friend of mine this morning and she was like, if another person [00:31:00] tells me to just breathe. That's not the problem.
Shannon Bowen: I know we're over breathing.
Rachel Duncan: We get it. That's not the problem here, but we could all take more breaths. But yeah, your friends, your network, you, you are chosen by some folks is what I would say.
That's the touchy-feely part
Shannon Bowen: Yes. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: you are chosen and it's real
Shannon Bowen: And you will find a job. You will find it.
Rachel Duncan: Hear it from Shannon.
Shannon Bowen: You have to believe in that. You have to believe that you are hireable
Rachel Duncan: We believe in you.
Shannon Bowen: And
Rachel Duncan: Yes.
Shannon Bowen: know, everybody is hireable. It's just how can you show them that you're the right specific fit for this job?
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Wonderful Shannon, so if this person needed some more specific help, how could they reach out to you and what are you offering? How could you help them?
Shannon Bowen: Well, first off, I would love the caller to, send back a response. I'd love to hear if we hit the nail on the head or if we should dive into anything else, more specifically. So I'd be curious about that. But yeah, so I do, coaching throughout the job search process. So my dream job coaching process takes every step of the way through the job search.
We go through your materials strategically telling your [00:32:00] story. I have these personalized AI reports that help you to really identify language of how to describe your secret sauce of strengths. We do interview, practice, and you know, my favorite salary negotiation, which is how we met. 'cause we are both empowered to help people, earn the money they need to reach their goals right now.
But a lot of what I help people to do is how to identify the right job for them right now in this phase of your life and how to align passion and purpose and prosperity. So, yeah, they can reach out to me. I have Catalyst calls open and would love to talk to people about their job search.
Rachel Duncan: fantastic. And it's at monsoonleadership.com, right?
Shannon Bowen: It is. Thank you for remembering my own business name that I forgot to say.
Rachel Duncan: See, it's because your strengths. I'm connected with you, so it's all good. Yeah. Everything will be in the show notes and if you reach out to Shannon, tell her that, you heard about her on this podcast, or just say Rachel sent you
Shannon Bowen: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: I'm sure she'll give you some extra love and attention.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, and I'm on LinkedIn all the time, so feel free to just drop me a [00:33:00] dm. If you have any specific questions about something funky going on in your job search, just let me know and just know that like people are getting jobs every week,
Rachel Duncan: they are.
Shannon Bowen: jobs that they love,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: so it can happen to you too.
Rachel Duncan: We believe in you everyone.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah,
Rachel Duncan: so much for unpacking this
Shannon Bowen: Thanks Rachel.
Rachel Duncan: If we
Shannon Bowen: Oh, this was fun.
Rachel Duncan: and, and listener, the person who called in, if you give us a little update, we'd love to get an update. 'cause also this is, uh, voicemail
Shannon Bowen: Would love.
Rachel Duncan: was left a little while ago, so I'd love to hear if there's any updates.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, and I, I really appreciate the question. So if there's more juicy job search questions, send 'em over to Rachel and we'll come on and do another one. 'cause, just know you're not alone. It's just, uh,
Rachel Duncan: we'll do a series.
Shannon Bowen: People are often saying, this is the hardest job search I've done my whole career and they've been working for 20 years.
It's just, it is different right now, but it doesn't mean it's unconquerable. You can, you can get the job you want.
Rachel Duncan: Lovely. Thank you Shannon. We'll be I'll see you around.
Rachel Duncan: Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club [00:34:00] podcast. You can find resources, links, everything from this episode in the show notes below, or at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, you probably really love my free email course on curbing impulse spending with compassion and mindfulness, you can check it out moneyhealingclub.com/challenge.
Do you have a question or a topic about financial therapy or about just living in this life with money? I'd love to get your voicemail to be featured on a future episode of the podcast. Check it out at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. You'll see a big orange button there where you can record from any device you're on.
You can also be anonymous. We are in this together and I really appreciate it. See you next time.