S2 E3: 💼 Job Secrets: What Your Employer Isn't Telling YOU with Shannon Bowen, the Salary Whisperer
EPISODE SUMMARY
How do you navigate a strange job market where positions are being pulled mid-interview process? It's frustrating to say the least. Shannon, a fundraising professional turned career coach, shares insider perspectives on employer behaviors during hiring, strategies for protecting your current position, and techniques for effective salary negotiation.
💬 "Everybody, you should be making more money and you're worth more. That's my last note. Rachel will teach you how to keep it. I'll tell you how to make it." - Shannon Bowen
5-Point Checklist for Job Seekers (Based on Shannon's Advice)
1. Update Your Professional Presence
Refresh your LinkedIn profile with a compelling headline and "About" section
Request recommendations from managers, peers, and people you've mentored
Document your achievements with specific data points and metrics
Tell your unique story - what approach or "secret sauce" do you bring everywhere?
text your friends to ask: what 5 adjectives describe me? Pepper them into your resume and/or cover letter!
2. Prepare for Salary Negotiations
Research market rates for your position and skills
Practice saying your desired salary out loud until comfortable (Don't burp your salary requirement)
Remember: negotiation is a normal conversation, not a confrontation
3. Apply Strategically
Don't self-select out of positions you don't meet 100% of requirements for
Understand job descriptions are often poorly written and outdated
Focus on the interview process as a two-way relationship-building exercise
Get everything in writing, especially promises about compensation
4. Protect Your Current Position
Regularly communicate your achievements to leadership with concrete metrics
Make your work visible - don't assume people notice your contributions
Connect your daily work to larger organizational outcomes
Post about professional accomplishments on LinkedIn to build your reputation
5. Activate and Warm Your Network
Engage with connections regularly before you need their help
Join professional organizations in your field for extended networking
Tell everyone when you're job searching, including people outside your industry
Consider volunteering or side projects to expand your connections
Remember there's no shame in job loss - people want to help
Guest Info
Shannon Bowen is a career advancement coach + salary whisperer who coaches professionals on how to ace their job search and step into a higher salary band. She is also a nonprofit executive leader, fundraiser, and job search expert. Currently, she is the Chief Advancement Officer for Pacific Northwest Research Institute, is the Co-President for AFP Advancement Northwest Board of Directors, and is the CEO of Monsoon Leadership, which trains nonprofit professionals how to land their dream job and get paid what they deserve. Shannon also teaches ballroom dance, DIY designs her house, cooks gourmet meals, and plans her next foodie vacay.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN
[00:03:00] the current job market and employer dishonesty
[00:09:00] Strategies for protecting your current position through self-self-promotion
[00:14:00] Create a compelling LinkedIn profile that tells your unique story
[00:22:00] negotiate your salary from your very first job
📚 Resources Mentioned
Monsoon Leadership (Shannon's career coaching business)
Clifton StrengthsFinder assessment
Dependable Strengths Articulation Process from University of Washington
Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP)
💬 Join the Conversation
Click on the big orange button on our site right from your phone or browser and let me know, are you on a job search? got a story about salary negotiation? https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
🎧 Your next listen: [H3]
S1 E11: 🫣 The REAL Reason You’re Struggling to Sell Your Services
💫 Use code PODCAST for 50% off your first month and start your money healing process! [H3]
https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/club
Full transcript: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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Shannon Bowen: [00:00:00] Everybody, you should be making more money and you're worth more. that's my lasT note. . I'll tell you how to make
Rachel: it.
There we go. See we're this is like perfect combo. Exactly.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Duncan. I'm a financial therapist and art therapist, and you've come to the softest place to land in personal finance. This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only. For help with your particular situation, please seek help from a licensed professional in mental health, taxes, and finance.
Here, we talk about all the things we don't usually say when we talk about money. Let's begin.
In today's podcast, I'm joined by Shannon Bowen. Shannon is a career advancement coach and salary whisperer who doesn't love that, who coaches professionals on how to ace [00:01:00] their job search and step into a higher salary band. She's also a nonprofit executive leader, fundraiser and job search expert.
Currently, she's the Chief Advancement Officer for Pacific Northwest Research Institute is the co-president for a FP Advancement Northwest Board of Directors and is the CEO of monsoon leadership, which trains nonprofit professionals how to land their dream job and get paid what they deserve. Shannon also teaches ballroom dance, DIY designs her house.
Cooks Gourmet Meals and plans her next foodie Vacay.
Please enjoy this conversation I have with Shannon where we talk about what's going on in the job market, she shares evergreen advice for keeping your LinkedIn profile up to date.
And for those of you who have a job and are not looking for one, I want you to listen to how you can protect your job. Shannon gives great nuggets of wisdom in this episode. It's so worth a listen all the way to the end.[00:02:00]
Rachel: All right Shannon, welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. And I wanna start off with this question.
What aspects of job and job searching are we just not really talking about right now, especially in today's climate? Like things have changed. What do we need to be talking about right now in your opinion?
Shannon Bowen: Well, we're definitely in a weird job market, so we should say that we recorded this on March 24th, 2025, because everything is changing all the time.
Rachel: Oh yeah.
Shannon Bowen: has happened since January is, um, a lot of times people started the job search process. You know, they applied, they did their first run interview, and then people are actually pulling the jobs right now because there's so much uncertainty with, you know, federal funding and what's gonna happen.
And so they're actually doing hiring freezes or pulling the jobs so people are having to restart. But I
Rachel: Oh, you mean like the postings that were there are no longer there? Is that what you mean?
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. And they're writing to them saying, Hey, we're no longer going forward with this position at this time.
Rachel: Oh.[00:03:00]
Shannon Bowen: You know, hopefully we'll loop back again, but that's really wasted time for both the employer and the applicant,
but I actually wanna talk about something that's perennial, that we don't
Rachel: Mm.
Shannon Bowen: about a lot is that a lot of employers lie during the job search process that there's.
Rachel: Ooh. What? What do they lie about, Shannon?
Shannon Bowen: Uh, there's a lot of salary ranges that are completely not real.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: then once you get to the negotiation stage and they say, oh, actually we were never gonna pay higher than the midpoint, then why did you have the range? And, you know, or
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: we actually never even intended to play the lowest part of the range.
We actually are gonna offer you 10 K lower than the range, which always feels really good at that point.
Rachel: Oh, the yuck.
Shannon Bowen: And people really get misled in the process. And so
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: like to work with my clients to make sure you're asking all the right questions and getting as much written into your offer letter because a lot of people lie during the process, and that's something we don't talk about enough.
Rachel: That's really fair. You know, I, I did a little bit of HR work [00:04:00] before I got into therapy, and one of the things was like the person writing a job description is likely not the HR professional, you know, like depending on the place. If it's a small business, hey, they don't have a full-time hr and they're basing it on the person who left.
So like when they put all the requirements, must have a master's degree in X must have 25 years of experience. Like they're often basing it on the person who left and it's super arbitrary. They don't really know. So like this idea that like, hey, if, if the job is interesting to you enough but you don't meet the requirements, like probably still apply because
Shannon Bowen: a 100%
Rachel: they don't really know what they're doing.
Right. Shannon?
Shannon Bowen: yes. First off, a lot of job descriptions are terribly written and exactly like you said, copy pasted. So they're
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: really relevant. And I work with so many people who self-select out too early
Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: It's a trust-building exercise, going through a job search and doing interviews.
So if there's enough there that interests you, go for it, because you're
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: way more in the [00:05:00] interviews than you're ever gonna learn from that job description. That feels like it was written 10 years ago because it was.
He had a master's in anthropology, so we're looking for a master's in anthropology, even though this is an accounting job, so,
Rachel: Right, exactly. Okay. So remember that employers lie both in the job description itself is maybe unintentionally let's give them the benefit of the doubt, but then also like in the interview process, like the salary range, hey, that might still need to be really hammered out.
You need things in writing. Um. All of that stuff. And it sounds like, and back to your first point, hey, like it's in this current climate, it's pretty common. Like, don't get discouraged because things are getting pulled even, you know, you maybe felt like you were a couple interviews in, or you're a good candidate and they pull it.
This is likely not personal to you,
Shannon Bowen: A very rocky job market right now. So just, I'm telling people don't give up on your dreams. It's
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: time to go after that next job you want. But expect it might take longer right [00:06:00] now.
And
Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: more, but to get to that place, it's just, there's not as many sure bets and there's a lot of twists and turns.
So just budget a
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: time. So if you can stick it out at your job and just I, what I call Slack for your spirit. Just do your job but don't do too much so you have that extra energy for your job search.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: that income going. So that you know, 'cause you never know. Sometimes people, they quit their jobs quickly and they think, oh, I'll find another job.
And it's a year later and they're coming to
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: wow, I never thought I'd be outta work this long. I've gone through my savings, I'm pulling from my mortgage and I just don't want anybody to be in that situation. 'cause the
Rachel: Yeah,
Shannon Bowen: I see is then you are not as picky.
I want
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: be picky about your next job.
I want you to feel in control of the process and feel like this is the right next step for you in your career.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: that's where it's like, sometimes it's just like, just stick it out a little bit, you know? Obviously if it's not a toxic [00:07:00] situation, if it's a
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: we're having a different conversation. But if you
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: out, then
Rachel: Hey, we all go through periods of boring jobs. Like I know it's hard and it's mind numbing, but Yeah. Means to an end sometimes to bridge that gap, um, so that you can be choosier. You know, something you've told me before is about like how to protect the job you have as well. Do what? Could you share a little bit of your strategy about that?
Like how could, Hey, my job is okay. I don't really wanna do the job search, but like, how could I make this better for me? How do you guide people through that process?
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, and so don't expect that anybody's really noticing exactly what you're doing. You
Rachel: Hmm.
Shannon Bowen: promote yourself all the time. So I'm a fundraiser by trade. And a lot of what we do is really external and kind of hidden, so you have to tell people, Hey, we actually raised this amount of money on this appeal that is higher than last year. Let me
Rachel: Hmm.
Shannon Bowen: how, guess what, we started this new email program. We have a 50% open rate. Let me tell you that the national average is [00:08:00] 27%. Like you have to educate people and you have to make it visible what you're doing. Because a lot of people aren't paying attention or they're distracted and blah, blah, blah, and then they're like, Ooh, we need to cut staff.
Well, I don't really know what so and so does.
Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: often how someone becomes collateral damage because they don't understand the power of the work that they're doing. And this
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: levels. Even if you're an associate or a coordinator, letting your boss know like, Hey, these are all the things I accomplished, and here was the outcome. know, we, we did this series of emails and wow, we got like three lapsed donors back they gave
Rachel: Right.
Shannon Bowen: but. You have to constantly be telling your story and showing your value, or unfortunately, sometimes you can be on the chopping block when tough decisions are made.
Rachel: Gotcha. And it's instead of waiting to be asked at the next performance review or on your next one-on-one, like actually offer it up, like, Hey, I'm excited that this happened, like this was cool. Or maybe sharing something about you and your [00:09:00] team or something like that. Like even on these casual things, not in some formal announcement, but.
Yeah, these casual things. Do you feel like LinkedIn is a good place for that as well? If your company's like okay with that, obviously, with whatever you're sharing.
Shannon Bowen: Yes. I think it's great to share, you know, a blog post that you wrote or a video you worked on or event you worked on that was super successful. A, you're giving publicity to the organization you work for, but also, yes, the proof is there and I
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: think one of my mantras is always be ready, and one
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: having your LinkedIn ready to go, and one of those is having recommendations. So you
Rachel: Mm.
Shannon Bowen: your network all the time for recommendations. so, you know, if you're a manager, you should have some recommendations for people you've managed. People you've coached, people, you've mentored your peers, a former supervisor, and asking for those throughout the year, so you're not, oh my gosh, I just got laid off.
I've gotta enter the job search, and now I have to
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: I haven't updated in 10 years and my cover letter, and I don't even use LinkedIn, and now I've gotta figure all these things out. It's overwhelming and you
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: as good a [00:10:00] job.
being ready, you work on it piece by piece and you look really good online and people are
to that and they wanna bring you in for an interview.
Rachel: I love that because right, everyone's, you're, they're looking at your LinkedIn profile, right? What have you been posting? Are you active on it? You know, did you positively represent your company? You know, all of that. How do you present yourself? I love that. And then also, like, back to what you're saying about like these specifics, right?
Like, hey, these emails that I wrote, you know, had this open rate versus. It. That's data for your resume, right? Because the resume has to have data points, right? So even if your work is like, eh, not that data E there's got, there's something, there's something in there. Like when I was in a big admin role, I was like, well, I did like 5,000 tiny things, you know?
So that was kind of tough. But like when I backed up, I was like, oh, but we tripled our staff.
Shannon Bowen: Wow.
Rachel: And I handled all of that. So it was sort of like nothing I did specifically, but like when I backed up, I was a huge part [00:11:00] of this company tripling its staff and its revenue. Right. I was a big part of that outcome, even though it didn't feel like it day to day.
You know, it wasn't one of my job requirements, but it was something that I, if I, when I backed up, I was like, no, I really was a huge part of that happening. So, you know, even if you're doing things like, eh, I'm just doing all this little stuff, like if you back up what was the bigger arc of this and try to put some numbers to it, and I bet there are some, and.
Sometimes I think it does help talking it over with somebody. We're so in the weeds, you know, like to see, hey, what was the arc of, you know, your one or two years or whatever it was at the, at the company and usually can pull something up.
Shannon Bowen: And it comes up when I'm doing interview prep with people and I'll, we'll be in
an hour, and then they'll say something like, oh yeah, I actually did raise the largest gift in the organization's history. I'm like, Uh,
don't I
your resume?
Rachel: Yes. an hour and now you're telling me this.
Shannon Bowen: And I, don't know. There's something about like, we're a little too humble. And you know, we need to sell ourselves more because [00:12:00] someone's taking a chance on that hire and they wanna
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: you can bring. So really own it and
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: verbs and own your success.
Rachel: And I think it's fair to say, Hey, I was in a team. I don't wanna take credit for that. That's fair. You can still position it though. You were a crucial part of that team. And you can say that you were part of it too. Hey, that's even better that a team that you were a part of achieved that Like that's okay.
That doesn't mean you don't put it in there, right?
Shannon Bowen: you were a vital part
Rachel: of the collaboration
Yeah. So makes me wanna ask you about LinkedIn. What do you wish more people would do on their LinkedIn profiles?
Shannon Bowen: Yeah. Uh, update it. Um,
Rachel: Just update it. Just get on there and update it
Shannon Bowen: think that a lot of what I work on with my clients is really telling a story. So sometimes people are coming to me when they're making a big career change, which I call like a hard pivot. I. Sometimes it's a medium pivot and sometimes it's a soft pivot.
you're trying to make any shift at all, or you're trying to make a big leap up to that next level, you have to tell your story. And sometimes why people don't get called for interviews is frankly because they're forgettable. It's too generic, it's too [00:13:00] bland, it doesn't stand out. And in this trust building exercise part of building trust is being like, I know who Rachel is.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: what she can bring. I wanna bring her in and hear more because I have a sense of her. If you don't have a sense of someone, it can feel, um. nerve wracking. Well, I don't know them. So, and LinkedIn is a great place to do this. So you've got your about section and you've got your headline, you've got your photo, and then you've got that header image, and those are all the header image, the headline, and the about all work together to tell a little bit of the secret sauce.
That is you.
So what is your approach? Are you a relationship builder? Are you data driven? Are you a community builder? whatever it is, you can put some of that approach in there of the, the skills that you bring with you everywhere you go.
And this up in your resume under your highlights of qualifications.
And this shows what you bring with you everywhere.
And then you have the data points to back it up but some of those bigger picture phrases really help the employer to know who you are. [00:14:00] So one thing I've had on my resume forever as I end my highlights of qualifications with creative risk taker. 'cause I've always been a creative risk taker and a lot of my fundraising style is through storytelling and branding. And so that's how I describe how I do my fundraising. It's different than
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: I always do development and communications together because of that storytelling lens.
Rachel: I love that and I feel like this process, it, it is helpful to talk with someone or maybe also like using ai, like, Hey, this is what I've been doing. What are my, you know, I don't even wanna say transferable skills. It, I actually did a training in grad school called the Dependable Strengths Articulation Process.
Have you heard of this, Shannon?
Shannon Bowen: I'm interested.
Rachel: it's actually out of UDub. Shannon's in Seattle, everyone. Yeah. And it's, it's really, it's a neat process that this guy, oh. Bertrand. Hmm. I'll link to it 'cause I don't remember his name, but like way back in like the fifties, developed this this really neat way of, and, and it's a group process.
This is the thing is really hard to know your dependable strengths on your [00:15:00] own. Go like, well this is what I do. It's often the stuff that's easy for you, so you don't see it as a strength, but other people come to you for it. And so there's this nice kind of questioning thing where you tell a certain type of story.
And the person listening writes down the strengths that they hear, and then they hand that list to you, and it doesn't, you don't have to take them all. Right. But the, like, also, if you do it in a small group and you get these lists, you're like, oh, five people said, you know, my warmth and communication or my creative problem solving or whatever, I would've never thought of it like that.
And now you have like better data of what people heard from your story. That, and, and I love, it's called dependable strengths because it's like, it don't matter what job you've got this. Is something that is like in you that will always come through in any work that you do. And I I found the training really therapeutic for me because the process is also like stop trying to upskill in places that are not your strengths.
Instead enhance the strengths you have. And [00:16:00] that helped me so much. 'cause I think I just run myself ragged trying to be good at everything and then I end up being me mediocre and everything, you know? And that like, no, your strengths will actually take over.
Shannon Bowen: yeah.
Rachel: Is that I know God being everything to everyone, poor millennials, poor us.
I know, but it was like, oh no, I do have certain strengths that actually like, make up for the, the challenges that I have. And, um, so anyway, but getting, getting back to what you're saying, I think this like the, yeah. These things that you have brought into every job you've had. If you had a stint as a barista.
Or if you've been a corporate executive, like you are bringing the same strengths to all of those and it might need a conversation with other people like I have. It makes me think of like putting together a dating profile. 'cause I always. Right. I had my, and it's so important to have your friends review it,
Shannon Bowen: Yes.
Rachel: right?
You write your, your dating profile and you sound boring as hell, and you need your friends to be like, why did you talk about that? I think the same thing is true for resumes. Like you show up prepared to every, you know, thing you [00:17:00] do, or you get excited about big projects. Like that's something I would never even consider, but like having that reflected back to you is super important.
Or even just asking your friends, I've done this before, like. What are five adjectives you'd use to describe me?
Shannon Bowen: love that because sometimes when people are coming to me, they're really struggling with confidence. They've been in
Rachel: Yeah,
Shannon Bowen: work situation. They've been undervalued or devalued,
Rachel: yeah.
Shannon Bowen: it is kind of hard to touch in with that. I'm curious if you like the Clifton strengths finder.
Rachel: Oh, I haven't, didn't really get into it, but I think it's, it's along the same line of the dependable strengths. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: Clifton strengths. Um,
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: it a lot actually at work, and I've used it with my clients, and I find that one to be, it's very relatable to work where sometimes the Myers breaks is not always relatable to work,
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: and it, it, you, you rate it on 34 strengths and you get your top five strengths and it really. Shows through of what kind of job fits with those strengths.
it's very interesting and it's really helped a lot of my clients be like, yeah, I am good at that,[00:18:00]
at that, and I can
firm in that. So I think whatever modality you wanna do to help you build up your confidence, because I believe in your value and your talent.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: with a bunch of meanies at the last job, but we're not gonna let those bullies hold
And so sometimes coaching, as you know, is a process of rebuilding confidence and healing from
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: past trauma.
Rachel: Mm-hmm. And for someone on the other side to say. I, I, these are the strengths I see. Right. Very truly. I don't, I never make any of that up. Right? Like they, you know, based on my experience with you, based on these stories that you've told me, and we, and we need to reflect that back. And I think it also kind of speaks to like, it's not about giving feedback, but like reflecting to somebody how they impact you.
I wish we did that more,
Shannon Bowen: well,
do that. You, we
get this to every good manager,
Rachel: yes.
Shannon Bowen: a specific compliment, not just like,
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: job on that event. Wow. You managed three different [00:19:00] registration lists. That all had very complicated dynamics, and we barely had to hand write any name tags. Because you did
Rachel: Okay.
Shannon Bowen: good job in advance. That's like super specific,
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: I think that that really helps people to know what I'm good at,
because it's hard to know. We do a lot of stuff in a
and it's like, did I even do a good
Rachel: and it's tough. And the one thing you remember is the thing you struggled in that like maybe wasn't your strength. And then you remember that as a, I remember my old admin job I handled, yeah, again, like thousands of tiny things. And I remember I made like a couple pretty big mistakes and oh, I just put myself through the ringer and I'm like, I handle everything so well.
This like couple little spreadsheet errors, like what the hell? Like that is a fraction of percent.
Shannon Bowen: it was probably fine.
Rachel: No, it was fine. It was fine. It was embarrassing and fine. And we got through it. But we don't
Shannon Bowen: mistakes in our culture and that
[00:20:00] that and it's like, but everybody makes a mistake. Like you've seen your boss make a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes.
A
You'll survive.
Rachel: Millennial healing right here. Oh my gosh. What do you wish, people in their, say, twenties and thirties, like knew about their jobs?
Or like what, what patterns do you wish you could kind of like fix when people are younger in their careers?
Shannon Bowen: I waited way too long to start negotiating my salary,
then when I started I was like, oh, is just a conversation
conversation. Why did I not do this?
And I think there's this idea in your twenties, especially in your first couple jobs, you just gotta take whatever's given.
they don't always know what the fair amount is to give.
So doing your
and coming back and saying, Hey, could I get this increased by $5,000? 'cause I have to commute here and it
to take the bus here. you know, actually I'm wondering if I can match the PTO that I had at my last job.
just [00:21:00] knowing that you can ask and you should ask.
And that's actually part of building trust with your new boss. You learn a lot about them. If they're just like, no, no, no, no, no. Well then they're never gonna advocate for you for a raise, so it's gonna
job. But if you can have a conversation and meet in the middle about a few of those things, so you walk in feeling really proud on day one, it's gonna be a better situation.
You're gonna stay there longer. But I think I didn't really start negotiating my salary till like my mid thirties, and I
all that money I left on the table. I made up for lost time, but I also,
taught myself how to do salary negotiation, and
Rachel: Yeah,
Shannon Bowen: started teaching my friends and they're like, okay, you're really gonna start a business and teach other people this. And it's
Rachel: yeah.
Shannon Bowen: to just know. That you can talk about money, and this is something that you and I share, is like
not shameful.
It's not
Rachel: No.
Shannon Bowen: It's something we all interact with and you have a right to ask for what you feel like you deserve.
Rachel: And the worst they can say is no. But what you've done is like, [00:22:00] oh, also we need to keep this person. Or I go, guys, like you can always leave a job. And granted, I know what we're saying is like, Hey, definitely keep yourself safe.
But I think when a manager employer hears that, they're like, Ooh, we gotta keep these guys right. So maybe it's, yeah. Could I increase PTO? I mean, also, you know, I'm a business owner. Budget's tight, stuff like that. But like, Hey, there's maybe some other ways that I could make this better for you. Um, and I think that starting that conversation and yeah, it's awkward.
Even though I advocate for tough money conversations, I do have tough money conversations when it comes to me advocating my own stuff. It's awkward as hell. And that's okay. We get used to the awkwardness, that's the thing, right? It is. If you feel. You know, anxiety and panicky around this stuff.
It just means you're a human being 'cause most people do and you will get through it.
Shannon Bowen: Yes.
Rachel: probably not gonna be as bad as you think
Shannon Bowen: Do you wanna hear a funny story? I.
Rachel: always.
Shannon Bowen: So I was doing a pretty big salary bump at this time. So it was about 20 k.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: [00:23:00] um, I'd never, you know, I'd never said this amount of money before. And I was on this call and they're like, okay, what are your salary expectations? And when I went to say the number, I was so weird about it.
I kind of like burped as I said it, and was like, whoa, that went really weird. And I was like, I need to practice it feels like to say this number and to feel proud
then
Rachel: Hmm.
Shannon Bowen: it again and you know, 'cause I had two, I had two offers at the same time. It was very
The other one I did not burp. And I said it with confidence because I'd gotten through the weird practice, but that's when I first
oh, there's a method to this. And practice actually helps because
Rachel: really does.
Shannon Bowen: was like my insecurity and my self-doubt came through as a burp.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: I said
Rachel: That is so funny. Okay, we'll work that into the title somehow.
Shannon Bowen: Don't burp your salary range.
Rachel: Take your antacid before going to your interview. Yeah. But actually practice saying it. Embody it. Yes. That's what I got. Hey. And if you feel a little, a little, uh, hot about it, great.
That's [00:24:00] because it's, it's 'cause you're hot. It's okay.
Shannon Bowen: you're taking a leap and
thing,
but it privately with a
or a partner or your dog until you feel comfortable doing it in front of a hiring manager. And it's, I love when they're like, I don't know. I'm like, let's practice saying the number. gonna be over a hundred K with this job. We're gonna practice what that feels like.
And it's always weird the first time and then
Rachel: It's always weird. Yes. And it's just money, guys. It's
Shannon Bowen: money.
Rachel: money. It's just money.
Shannon Bowen: Yeah.
Rachel: It's just money. Money is so important. And also not it's, you know, it's all of these things. That's why it's so interesting to me. It like has so many dimensions. I know there's like so much, 'cause you live and breathe this. Maybe I kind of wanna circle back to like right now where we are, you know, especially, I know you help a lot of change makers, people in the nonprofit field. It's a really scary time right now. Like, could you maybe what, what do you wanna say to those folks that are like, maybe they recently lost their [00:25:00] job. No fault of their own. Or they're worried that even their organization's gonna get shut down. What? What do we say?
Shannon Bowen: Well, first off, you will find another job.
of your story. It's not that you'll be unemployed forever. You will find another job, even though it feels like. won't.
then I think for people that are afraid about losing their job, do every self-protective thing you can.
work that you do, Rachel, of if your emotions are holding you back from having a good budget, from saving, from feeling like you're worth it to open a high yield savings account. Anything you can do to protect yourself financially. And then advocating for yourself at work, making sure people see your value all the time. So if they are hard decisions, they know we can't get, we can't lose that high performer.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: being ready, having your LinkedIn ready to go
Rachel: Brush it up
Shannon Bowen: letter now when you're not under pressure and you're not dealing with the negative emotions [00:26:00] of job loss.
Rachel: Mm.
Shannon Bowen: even if you lose your job of no fault of your own, we still carry shame. disappointment and grief. I mean,
Rachel: Yeah. There's real grief. Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: the job. It's
really tough. And so if you can work on all that in advance and just be ready, you will feel more bulletproof
Rachel: Mm.
Shannon Bowen: comes.
And you
my heart is just breaking, seeing so many people losing their jobs that are good employees
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: flooding this job market and we don't know what that's gonna look like yet. And especially many of those government employees will be coming to the nonprofit space, right? Because
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: of a Venn diagram overlap and um, you know, so we'll see.
We'll see how this plays out. We don't really know in the economy, but it's not the time to give up on your dreams.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: the time to stop betting on yourself. It just might take a little longer and
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: a little bit more strategic, but it's not insUrmountable.,
Rachel: That's not another question I've been hearing a lot about, like, networking, you [00:27:00] know, this like the dreaded, that dreaded word, and the power of, of your extended network, not your primary network. Do, do you have any thoughts about that? What would you recommend to people in terms of, in terms of their network?
Shannon Bowen: So if you just lost your job or about to lose your job, warm up your network. Now, this could be as simple as liking their posts on LinkedIn, writing comments,
your new job. Wow, that's great that you guys got that grant. Whatever, you know, just little bit of warmups, you know, sending dms.
Wow, that's so great. I'd love to connect and get coffee and so that it's already warmed up that. Extended network if you're part of, um, networking groups. So I'm co-president of my a FP Chapter Association of Fundraising Professionals chapter here in Seattle. So that's an extended network, right?
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: you're going to a social and drinking a beer or you're talking about your career, right? So this is really important because you have your core group, but you need to extend beyond that to [00:28:00] access more jobs. And then once you do lose your job. Sending an email out to people and saying, Hey, you know, I just lost my job. I'm looking for this. Be very specific. Attach your resume and have your LinkedIn. I'm also seeing a lot of people post like that on LinkedIn and it's been really positive. I think there's
Rachel: Just being authentic about it. Like people wanna help you out.
Shannon Bowen: help you.
Rachel: Like I just saw, like my, um, my community is hosted on the Circle platform and I just saw on the circ that they're hiring
Shannon Bowen: Great.
Rachel: and I put it on my community. Hey, they're hiring. Like, I want everyone to get good jobs to do their stuff and like, if I knew some, you know, know someone who's good for that work.
And, and I think what's so important is putting it out not just to people in your industry, but maybe a bit of a wider net is 'cause like, who knows whose uncle is what, like you never know. Mention it to your dentist. Like seriously? Like do people know? Oh, tell a story.
Shannon Bowen: of my clients who's also a good friend, and uh, she wanted to transition away from [00:29:00] fundraising to be a chief of staff,
church and her pastor was talking to her and was like, oh, what are you doing? You know, how are you doing? She's like, well, I'm looking for a job, and she's, oh, and fundraising.
No, I'm looking to be a chief of staff. she was like, oh. We're thinking of posting for that. She just got the job and she's the chief of staff of her
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: so she
Rachel: Just mention it.
Shannon Bowen: in this community she loves, and it's because it's like always be ready, always be promoting yourself because you never know who wants to help you.
Rachel: Yeah. Let them know.
Shannon Bowen: Let them
Rachel: Let them know. And we are past there being any shame with job loss? I mean, I feel like the pandemic healed them. Like in general, I'm sure some people still carry some stigma, but like, my gosh, like it has that job, like it's okay and shit happens. Let people know.
Shannon Bowen: have to keep working. know, you can't
Rachel: Yep.
Shannon Bowen: working until you know you're older, but most of us are still in those ages where we gotta keep working.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: the other thing I say, um, which, you know, you and I resonate with this too, is starting a [00:30:00] side business. So I work
Rachel: Hmm.
Shannon Bowen: and then Monsu leadership is my side business, which I love.
I love coaching people through the job search process and salary negotiation, but it's also my parachute if something
Rachel: Yeah. Plan B.
Shannon Bowen: I've got something there that's
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: up and ready and I can grow.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: having that just makes me feel more confident that whatever happens happens.
Rachel: Yeah. Have a little, a little side hustle and I mean, I do caution, I just worry about people burning out too much though. I mean, it's gotta be a side hustle that like juices you and is something you can hold lightly. But yes, especially if it's like helping you with your network. Um. And is, yeah. A kind of a plan B.
I love that. I think that's really great. Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: you know, with
Rachel: Yes.
Shannon Bowen: with your time schedule. You know, I'm a morning person, so I coach starting at 7:00 AM my time. I do not
Rachel: Whoa,
Shannon Bowen: because I'm dead. So, uh, we're having this conversation after work, which is
Rachel: true.
Shannon Bowen: but I'm more of
Rachel: Little exception.
Shannon Bowen: I'll make the [00:31:00] exception for you.
Rachel: Thank you.
Shannon Bowen: about how it fits into your life, and you
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: and don't take on too much. And then it's like you feel like you're failing everything, you know?
Ugh. No. Yeah,
we do
Rachel: yeah.
Shannon Bowen: know why we
Rachel: I know,
on ourselves.
I had a client who like, you know, picked up some weekend work at a, at a yarn store to make some extra money and like have something nice and it was great and it was for a summer and she was able to get on her feet and great. Done. You know, and what a great little network, you know, like, it's so good.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: And it's fun to just have a job where you get to be around different people, get outta the house
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: I don't know, feel alive in a hobby you love.
Rachel: Yeah. And I'll say I, do you think volunteering can fit in there?
Shannon Bowen: Yeah, I there's less volunteering options than there used to be. But again, through
FP chapter, we are all volunteers
get a lot of value through that,
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: so we volunteer through like putting on events and stuff.
So it's a little bit different. It's
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: you know, uh, going to like a food bank or something, but a lot of people do find
Rachel: [00:32:00] Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: we've been in a loneliness epidemic since the pandemic, and
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: haven't come out of that and found people, and sometimes work isn't a safe place to make friends. So
Rachel: Yeah,
Shannon Bowen: love volunteering for that. It's
Rachel: I do.
Shannon Bowen: wish there was more options for volunteering and more variety. You know, I.
Rachel: Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm on, I'm on a few small nonprofit boards and uh, it's great because then I'm like still talking with my friends.
Shannon Bowen: That's
Rachel: Yeah,
Shannon Bowen: volunteering.
Rachel: which is kind of great, especially people even like we're really doing stuff when, and we also get to like check in with each other and it's great. So I do love that.
Shannon Bowen: awesome.
Rachel: Well that's great Shannon. Okay. This has been incredible. I do feel like I could talk to you forever. Um, let us know real quick, how do we stay in touch with you? And I will caveat Shannon sends the best emails. Like I am very picky about the emails. I will read. I've been ruthless with my inbox. But um, Shannon, your emails are really good.
So where do people find you in your emails?
Shannon Bowen: I appreciate that and I love the compliment that you gave that you're like, I curled up in bed to read your email about my fridge dying and all my mustards [00:33:00] that I had
Rachel: Yes,
Shannon Bowen: out, and I was like, what a great compliment that it's like you're curled up. Can't wait to read the next cereal of of my life.
Rachel: like Mustard story, he had a really good like tagline. I'm like, don't I love mustard? That's probably why I have like a passion for mustard,
Shannon Bowen: was
Rachel: so,
Shannon Bowen: for the mustards in this house.
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: yeah, so you can find me. So I hang out on LinkedIn all the time, so you
LinkedIn, Shannon Bowen, 5 2 5. And then, um, my website is monsoon leadership.com and then you can join my email list there. I email every week. I do stories from my clients, what I'm seeing in the job market, my fridge
Rachel: Hmm.
Shannon Bowen: uh, my cactus that finally bloomed.
You name it. Things will happen. You'll love it. It's a good story. Um,
on Instagram a little bit less. I'm more
and that's kinda the best place to find me
to connect with you all and I know that Rachel and I are gonna be do something together very soon. And so
To see everybody there because you know, we love talking money.[00:34:00]
Rachel: We do. It's so good. Okay, so I'm gonna end also with the question I ask all my guests, which is Shannon, I want you to picture your money as a creature. Real or fictitious. It doesn't matter. Go with your first instinct. It's always right. What is the first thing that comes to mind for you?
Shannon Bowen: The first thing that comes to mind is stegasaurus.
Rachel: Oh,
I
will share. That was my, that was my favorite dinosaur, by the way.
Shannon Bowen: Well I was thinking 'cause it's got all these spikes coming out, all different directions. Like I'm always like making money in different ways, like I've
that. So
I actually was a ballroom dance teacher and I choreographed weddings. I.
hustle for like 20 years.
I've choreographed like 40 weddings, so
finding these ways to kind of grow my income. Um, but it's still this big behemoth, you know, the budget and debt and
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Shannon Bowen: Like I don't want anybody thinking I'm perfect with money. Absolutely not. But I am good at growing it. And
Rachel: It is heavy. Maybe there's a heaviness.
Shannon Bowen: [00:35:00] heaviness.
It's tough to shift.
of slow sometimes, but it's growing on all these different ways. I love
Rachel: Lumbering along lumber. Right. It's, Aw. I just have such a warm spot for Stegosaurus too.
Shannon Bowen: What's your
Rachel: Well, it's different every day. This is something like changes in the moment. Okay. Mm. My money today. Mm. Polar bear.
Shannon Bowen: Oh.
Rachel: Oh, polar bear just popped to mind. It's probably 'cause I just watched alone. With my kids.
I think there's a bear often comes to mind. I, I think the biggest healing transformation I've had with money is protecting it like a mama bear. And I kind of went from not feeling like my money was really mine or I needed to spend it to keep up with people to shifting into like, if I'm gonna spend money on something I have to, it has to be really worth it.
And. And yes, and I do love frugality and stuff like that, but I, this, this protectiveness I have about my money is also, I, I really protect other people's money, right? Like I [00:36:00] am so passionate about other people protecting their money and me protecting my money and finding beautiful consensual ways for us to exchange it.
Shannon Bowen: with you, you
about the hard things about money,
we're not taught how to talk about it in a
Rachel: Yeah.
Shannon Bowen: in
have to reclaim it for ourselves.
Rachel: we're doing it Shannon. We are changing those scripts.
Shannon Bowen: Everybody, you should be making more money and you're worth more.
that's my lasT note Keep it and can hang onto it.
I'll tell you how to
make
Rachel: it There we go. See we're this is like perfect combo. Exactly. Well, Shannon, I'll post everything in the show notes. This has been a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for joining us.
Shannon Bowen: Thank you for having me.
Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club podcast. You can find resources and links from this episode in the show notes at moneyhealingclub. com slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, you'd probably really love my [00:37:00] free email course on curbing impulse spending with compassion and mindfulness.
Check it out at moneyhealingclub.com/challenge. Do you have a question about how financial therapy might help you? Leave me a voicemail at moneyhealingclub.com. And I might answer your question in a future episode of the pod. We are in this together and I really appreciate it.