S2 E28:🟢 What can chakras teach you about money? w/ Jessica Boots
EPISODE SUMMARY
What if your body holds the key to healing your relationship with money? Rachel speaks with Jessica Boots, author of "It's All Connected: an interactive leadership and healing journey through the chakras". We explore how the seven chakras can guide us through our money healing journey, as well as our leadership. From root chakra security up to crown chakra wisdom, we unpack how each energy center shows up in our financial lives, each center with its gifts and shadows.
Key Takeaways:
Your money challenges might show up differently in each chakra - from root chakra fear to sacral chakra guilt to crown chakra attachment
The framework works whether or not you believe in chakras - think of it as multiple ways of knowing
Each energy center has both gifts and shadows that affect how we handle money
Integration happens when we honor the wisdom of all parts of ourselves
About Jessica Boots: Jess is a writer, leadership coach, yoga teacher, and mama who founded Lead and Be Well. Her debut book "It's All Connected" guides readers through an interactive leadership and healing journey using the chakra framework.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN
01:30 | Root Chakra: Safety, Values & Your "Enough" Point How your foundation shows up in money decisions
07:00 | Sacral Chakra: Pleasure, Guilt & What You Deserve
Moving from "I need" to "I want" - and the guilt that follows
13:00 | Heart Chakra: Generosity, Grief & Financial Forgiveness When love-based money decisions create complicated feelings
20:30 | Third Eye: Trusting Your Financial Intuition Balancing data with body wisdom in money choices
📚 Resources Mentioned
"It's All Connected" by Jessica Boots
💬 Join the Conversation
Have you ever noticed how different money decisions feel in your body? I'd love to hear about a time when your gut told you something different than mainstream advice! Click the big orange button and share your story: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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When budget culture meets diet culture with anti-diet dietician Leah Kern
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[00:00:03] Rachel: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist, and I founded the Money Healing Club. This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only. For help with your particular situation, please seek help from a licensed mental health, tax, legal, or finance professional.
[00:00:24] Today I'm joined by Jessica Boots. Jess is a writer, leadership coach, yoga teacher, and mama, and as the founder of Lead and Be Well, she guides reflective, growth-minded humans to lead with clarity, compassion, and authenticity on the yoga mat at home and in their work. She's coming out with her debut book called, it's All Connected
[00:00:47] an interactive leadership and healing journey through the chakras. I'll have a link to that book in the show notes. You should really check it out. Jess and I became friends at a small business owner's retreat, and we thought it could be illuminating to use the framework of chakras in our money healing journey.
[00:01:06] So whether or not you are into chakras and yoga philosophy, I think you'll love this idea that our body gives us multiple ways of knowing and experiencing everything. And in this case, we look at money. So let's talk about all the things we don't usually say when we talk about money and chakras with Jessica Boots.
[00:01:26]
[00:01:30] Rachel: I would love to just get into how could we understand money through the seven chakras?
[00:01:35] Jessica: One, I mean, one of the things I love about working with
[00:01:37] Rachel: Okay.
[00:01:38] Jessica: the chakras as a framework, right? So even if someone's like. I dunno about the chakras. Like they can even just put that to the side and think about it as a framework. So The
[00:01:50] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:51] Jessica: first chakra is the root chakra that's energetically in our body, right?
[00:01:55] It's our legs, our feet
[00:01:56] um, and it's also our foundation. So we can think about that as our community, our family, with finances and money, it's like, what is my enough point? So when I think about like, how does money
[00:02:14] show up the foundation of my life, like my mortgage that I pay or my rent.
[00:02:21] Rachel: Right, like basic needs. What are the really important things? I'm also thinking that like relates to safety. Money always relates to safety. Like where am I rooted? Where am I? Okay,
[00:02:31] Jessica: absolutely
[00:02:33] in my book, I connect it to leading with purpose. And a big part of that is knowing our values. so when I think about money, right, it's yes, do I have enough? I feel safe and secure? I have this foundation of money. is my money aligning with my values? So in how I am spending money, is it in a way that feels aligned with what I say matters most to me? Um, which might show up for some in their personal finances, right? Like in their family, um, and then for others in their business. yeah, that, that foundational, like
[00:03:12] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:03:13] Jessica: enough, I feel, I feel safe with money.
[00:03:16] Rachel: I love that. I'm gonna take notes from the bottom up as, as we go. Okay. So we've got Root chakra values, safety Foundation, family
[00:03:25] Jessica: The second chakra is like, who am I in one-on-one relationships. It's about abundance. It's about, what we deserve and and creativity. So when I think about that relating to money and finances, oh my gosh. Like so many thoughts came up about like, do I deserve to spend money on X, Y, Z? Like, can I buy this thing that's just for my pleasure? Like, am I. Allowed to.
[00:03:59] Right. Based on whatever, you know, past ideas and stories I've told myself about what I deserve.
[00:04:08] Rachel: Yeah, a lot of the folks I work with are like, I love beautiful things. Like that has a usefulness to me that does not feel like an extra, like that is part of me. Yeah. Feeling like I'm in my body. And it's interesting, like the one-on-one relationships, like the, like the intimacy, do you feel like this would come out with.
[00:04:25] Yeah. In an intimate partnership, right? How are we connecting about our, our values and our pleasure and this beautiful life we're building, and money's a big part of making that happen.
[00:04:35] That would be kind of related to that sacral chakra it sounds like.
[00:04:38] Jessica: Together so much, right? So like root is like, I need and sacral is like, I want.
[00:04:47] Rachel: Actually, I'm so glad you said that. 'cause so often you'll hear in the your wants from your needs and you know, 30% on your needs. By the way, guys, I hate all those frameworks because
[00:04:56] Jessica: mm-hmm.
[00:04:57] Rachel: what? Like when you're stressed out, your wants feel like needs, like they're very close.
[00:05:01] And also like my need might look like your want. Like these are super individual, very contextual, and depending on where we're at, because like this beautiful thing, like, okay, when I saw this mug, y'all. At the consignment store. This was not a nice to have. This was a got to have like everything about this, the way it feels in my hand, the size of it, the color of it.
[00:05:26] Look how it like goes with my whole aesthetic. Like this was a sacral choice. That also felt like totally compelling. Like I had to, and it was a great price. So like all of it lined up for this mug to be my mug. And I think of it, it's like, because it hit all those bases and it felt like a need. It didn't feel like a want.
[00:05:45] Yeah.
[00:05:46] Jessica: I love that in, within each energy center, there's a, shadow side that is really important to be aware
[00:05:53] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:05:54] Jessica: and like work through. And so for the root, it's fear. For the sacral, it is guilt. I like, I treated myself and now I feel guilty about it.
[00:06:03] Rachel: Oh, that's great. Okay, so that's good. Let's, let's definitely do this, like this is how, this is the knowledge or the energy of the chakra. And then here is the, the shadow side, the counterbalance, it sounds like. Okay. That's great. Okay. Root sacral.
[00:06:17] What's next as we go up the body?
[00:06:18] Okay so
[00:06:19] Jessica: we are moving into the solar peluxs And in the body, energetically, it's the space in
[00:06:22] Rachel: between Um.
[00:06:23] Jessica: The belly button and the diaphragm. It almost like makes us sit up a little bit straighter, like you and I both did that.
[00:06:29] It's like fire element. Um, and so we had the relationship with community one-on-one relationships, and then here, this is our relationship with ourself. So you think about all the words that start with self, right? Self-acceptance, self-worth, self-confidence, are all in this part of our energy. In my book, it's the chapter of leading with confidence.
[00:06:55] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:55] Jessica: and our knowledge knowing, um, kind of who we are, right? Who we are. I think about relating that to
[00:07:03] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:03] Jessica: finances and money. It's like I'm confident with my skills and knowledge around my finances, right? Like I know how much money I make. I know my budget, I know what
[00:07:15] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:07:15] Jessica: I'm spending. I know where to invest it. I know when to save. I feel confident in my choices. I feel empowered. Right. It's a power center, so its not about having, um, power over others or giving our power away either to money itself or to other people,
[00:07:37] Mm-hmm.
[00:07:38] but standing really strong and feeling, yeah like confident and empowered in that center and the shadow side of it is shame
[00:07:46] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:46] What if I can't do it? All right. That's the shadow. Or I thought I had it together and it turns out I don't. It's very easy to tip. those scales or, I mean, sometimes I also think like the more we learn about something, then like, oh, there's still a lot, I don't know.
[00:08:01] That can come up. Right?
[00:08:02] Jessica: Yeah. I heard about it when I was, you know, when I was kind of brainstorming
[00:08:04] Rachel: Yeah
[00:08:05] Jessica: this connection with money. I thought about like within new relationships, how challenging it can be to talk with
[00:08:12] Rachel: Hmm.
[00:08:13] Jessica: a partner about past money habits or past debts, or it's like the inner critic, it's like very much the center of the inner critic and where like. Who am I to fill in the blank, right? Who am I to make this financial decision?
[00:08:31] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:31] Jessica: Who am I to spend money in this way? Or who am I if this is my past with my finances?
[00:08:39] Rachel: Right. I say, say a lot. Well, it's a common phrase in therapy. This is not the story I tell myself about myself. It's like the hardest truth sometimes to sit. If people only knew how bad it was. Right. And we carry that a lot, a lot of work on, on making it look like everything's okay.
[00:08:56] When it doesn't feel that way. I even like, the way I think about that is right here in the solar plex is like, oh, you don't know what's in here.
[00:09:01] Jessica: yeah both that and the sacral like feel like a vulnerable part of the body Um And yeah, we hold
[00:09:08] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:08] Jessica: of that energy there and I mean the, just a way our body connects with these different topics, right? As soon as I said it, we both were like, oh, here I am really tall.
[00:09:20] Rachel: We, by the way, we are both tall girls, Tall girls. See eye to eye. Okay. All right. Solar plexus. Okay, let's ready to go to the next stage
[00:09:28] Jessica: Heart chakra, the anahata chakra is, is dealing with the, the lungs, the ribs, the chest, the shoulders, the arms, the hands. Um, I like to really think about that because it's like the energy of giving a hug right? Is, is all in this part of the body and it is about. connect it with leading with love, but it's anything related to love. It's generosity, it's gratitude, it's vulnerability, it's offering and receiving. Because the element here is air. It makes me think a lot about the reciprocal nature of air, right? We breathe in and out. We offer, we receive, we're in relationship and when I think about with money, right? Like we're in relationship with money. We're not holding on so tightly but we are in the flow of generosity, right? Like maybe we're donating to places that we care about. We're generous in ways where we feel, um, able to receive either financial gifts or, you know, wisdom around money when it comes our way. And we also can freely give of it as well. Um,
[00:10:46] Rachel: Mm. And the shadow here is grief, which is really. Interesting.
[00:10:51] Um,
[00:10:52] Jessica: I think grief touches on so many of the other shadows. yeah. I'm curious what comes up for you when I
[00:10:58] Rachel: yeah.
[00:10:58] Jessica: spew all?
[00:10:59] Rachel: Yeah. And I am thinking about, you know, all my clients and past clients of like, God, I really blew it, or I wish I had worked on this when times were better. Or, you know, regret is a, I feel like that probably relates a bit to, to money. Like, I regret what I've done or is it too late? Also sometimes I think we get mixed up.
[00:11:21] Of like, oh, my compulsion was to support or be generous, but I did it in a way where I wasn't thinking, or I did it in a way that now maybe I like supported my adult children too much. You know, I'm just thinking like some of these stories where I wanted to support them, but now I've enabled them and now I maybe shouldn't have done that.
[00:11:42] Right? So it's like, but it came from the spirit of love and generosity. And that can sometimes be, especially like with financial activism that we talk a lot about, like, yeah, the world is messed up and capitalism sucks and like we're all in this, but like at the same time, we can't donate our lives away.
[00:11:57] And, and that's. I think there's guilt there. Driving by someone asking for money and choosing not to give at that point. Oh, it pulls, doesn't it? That is total guilt. And there are there and there is no clear answer. I don't think there's a clear answer. That guilt is,
[00:12:12] Jessica: Yeah,
[00:12:12] Rachel: think part of like walking this earth, we cannot do everything
[00:12:16] Jessica: yeah. What I
[00:12:18] Rachel: or give everything we can't.
[00:12:19] Yeah.
[00:12:20] Jessica: regret is absolutely present there and forgiveness.
[00:12:24] Rachel: Mm-hmm. I think about,
[00:12:26] Yeah. both the, the solar plexus, right? Leading with confidence and leading with love. The sort of power center and love, they are, I mean, the book is called, it's All Connected because everything is connected. Um, I,
[00:12:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:12:40] Jessica: love that example of
[00:12:41] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:42] Jessica: Yeah, my generosity was coming from this place of love and it had an impact on the power dynamics in a certain relationship.
[00:12:54] Yeah. Either enabling or taking
[00:12:55] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:12:56] Jessica: power away or, making somebody else feel like they aren't capable.
[00:13:01] Rachel: And this idea that the way through is forgiveness, which is self-forgiveness. Right. Okay. I was doing the best I knew at the time, and so were they we are all making the best choices we can at the time. Right. And then that self critic can maybe have another thing to say later down the line, but in the moment like, we are surviving or thriving or Whatever it is, and I got so much. Is forgiveness in money work? I really feel that. Yeah.
[00:13:29] Yeah. Mostly of self.
[00:13:30] Jessica: have to sort of practice that first
[00:13:32] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:13:32] Jessica: right. That self forgiveness
[00:13:33] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:13:34] Jessica: first before we can authentically forgive other people.
[00:13:38] Rachel: Uh, big, beautiful heart Makes, wanna take a deep breath, right? Okay. Where, where do we move next? Jess boots. Where do we move next?
[00:13:46] Jessica: So the throat chakra is, connected To communication. connected to speaking and listening, creative expression. In my book, I talk about it as leading with truth. And I really talk about the balance of speaking and listening. The shadow we get to work with here is lies. And when I think about how this shows up
[00:14:10] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:11] Jessica: for leaders around money, right? Like, can I talk about money? I hear
[00:14:18] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:14:18] Jessica: other people talk about money or ask me questions about money? Um. Can we ask for the raise that we deserve? Can we negotiate or explain what,
[00:14:29] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:29] Jessica: which again, takes us back down to that second chakra of like, what do I deserve? And our confidence, right?
[00:14:36] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:36] Jessica: so if those things align, can I then speak my truth about it? Um, and be honest about whatever it is that comes up about money, right?
[00:14:47] Rachel: It's discomfort. , Could I speak a truth? And know that it's uncomfortable and it's going to be, and how will, yeah. That's why lying is there. Because lying, or I would even say with money, probably avoidance too. Like we're gonna avoid that topic, which is a kind of lie because the, it's so uncomfortable.
[00:15:03] Well, okay. Yeah. Now we have saved ourself from discomfort. We are in a more comfortable place.
[00:15:08] That is also maybe not totally true.
[00:15:10] Jessica: Yeah
[00:15:10] I
[00:15:10] think about you know, I'm in the entrepreneurial world now and I know some people that like, it's like I don't even wanna look at my finances. That avoidance of, if I don't check on
[00:15:22] it
[00:15:22] Rachel: Right.
[00:15:22] Jessica: maybe it won't be an
[00:15:23] Rachel: Yep.
[00:15:24] Jessica: Um, so it's that, yeah, avoidance with others, but also with being truthful
[00:15:27] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:28] Jessica: with ourselves, right.
[00:15:29] In the, the power of.
[00:15:32] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:32] Jessica: having the
[00:15:32] data in front of us, communicating even with ourselves about money in and money out and where we're spending it and yeah, sitting in that discomfort and getting some clarity.
[00:15:43] Rachel: Is part of this? 'cause you said it's like both expression and listening, like I'm kind of wondering about. You know, a lot of my work is like trying to offer another narrative in a space that is filled with a lot of shame about, say, impulse spending or underearning and stuff. Um, you know, it's, it's also the information we're receiving.
[00:16:04] What, whose voices are you letting in? Or like talk to a lot of folks who are like, well, the only person I ever talked to. About money was my parents. They were less than helpful. And like, who are we letting in the room? Who are we conversing with? Or who are we, whose messages are we receiving? Um, because there could be, you know, maybe it's true for someone else, but it might not be true for you.
[00:16:26] I'm very, I'm super into the throat chakra in my human design. I have like a fully defined throat. And one of the reasons I'm doing a podcast and I'm also a vocalist and like, it's so important to me, but like to think also, this isn't just how we express it, is also whose messages are we letting in?
[00:16:41] Who are we talking with? Who are we letting in the room? And also, I think a lot of folks who I work with have never spoken about money. I've never talked about this. That's the shame bit. That's, you know, so much of that deeper stuff. But I've, you know, there's no way I'm gonna join your program 'cause I can't talk about money.
[00:17:00] I'm like, actually we don't talk about like your specific money. That is, there's a lot of other processes going on, but I've never expressed this
[00:17:07] because what if I heard my own truth? yeah thats absolutely
[00:17:09] Jessica: a part of it. It's even
[00:17:10] Rachel: That's really scary.
[00:17:11] Jessica: you know, what were the things I was told as a child about money you know what did I
[00:17:17] Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm.
[00:17:19] Jessica: hear or what was I told that we, you know, was I as a child to told that we don't talk about money, we don't talk about religion, we don't talk about politics.
[00:17:27] Right and so I have a hard time
[00:17:29] Rachel: Right.
[00:17:29] Jessica: even asking questions. About. so yeah it's absolutely
[00:17:34] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:37] Jessica: the information, the voices that are coming in externally as well as our, um, inner dialogue.
[00:17:43] Rachel: Mm-hmm. . That's beautiful. Okay. Alright. We've got throat Now. We're at, Crown yet? No.
[00:17:49] Jessica: Yeah, so third I, in the,
[00:17:51] Rachel: Third eye okay.
[00:17:52] Jessica: That the throat chakra is this. I mean, I feel like basically from the heart up, we have this reciprocal nature, right? So the heart is inhales, exhales, the throat is listening and speaking, and when
[00:18:07] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:07] Jessica: third eye, it's still that balancing of intuition. And logic, it's seeing things with our two eyes as well as, um, closing the eyes and seeing things from an internal intuitive space. It light and the shadow. when I think about like leaders and money, so much of this, I just kept coming back to the word trust and that I can trust my decisions around money. I can both take the data, right my
[00:18:43] Rachel: Yes.
[00:18:43] Jessica: budget, my facts and numbers. I can trust the wisdom of my body I'm making decisions like this is a yes or this is a no. it's, it's really about like, do I have a vision? Am I seeing clearly or the shadow, which is illusion, right? I'm seeing things not as they are.
[00:19:05] Rachel: That's beautiful. I mean, I feel like trust is self-trust is always what we're going for, and it ends up being this beautiful, I don't wanna say byproduct, but like. You'll get there. Like you kind of know that you have done a lot of integration and a lot of healing and knowing when like, oh yeah, I do trust myself.
[00:19:22] Like it's, it's the symptom of healing is self-trust. It's like we can't just like, oh, trust yourself. Like it doesn't, it doesn't start there. I do from where I sit with money healing, it is the result of money healing is, oh, I found out that I trust myself and there's this wisdom. Yeah, just like you said, like this embodiment and that's really interesting, the shadow side of illusion.
[00:19:44] Jessica: yeah I think its also in the same way that for the throat chakra, it's like, whose voices am I letting in? Who am I listening to? Same thing here.
[00:19:53] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:53] Jessica: know, our world is, so much of it is online, we're consuming, you know, images at rapid speed on social media or via the news. It's also like, what am I consuming through the visual sense? .
[00:20:09] I mean, just like social media in general is a tricky space around, well how much of this is true or how much of this
[00:20:16] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:20:17] Jessica: is
[00:20:18] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:18] Jessica: you know
[00:20:18] creating an image or a story because it's just based on a few pieces and I'm not seeing the whole picture because it's impossible to see the whole picture.
[00:20:28] Rachel: I look like them. You know, there is that like, oh, I feel like we're the same. And uh, yeah.
[00:20:33] That kind of persuasion
[00:20:35] Jessica: and that can impact our ability trust ourselves, right? When we're receiving information
[00:20:40] Rachel: totally.
[00:20:41] Jessica: from
[00:20:41] so many different places and so it's balanced with, yeah, let me. You know, kinda block some of that a little bit and go back inside for all of those more foundational
[00:20:52] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:53] Jessica: energy centers. Right? So it goes from like the
[00:20:56] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:56] most dense
[00:20:56] Jessica: and, tangible all the way up through the most, like ethereal to the very top.
[00:21:01] Rachel: Yeah. That's interesting. I, it also kinda makes me feel like, you know, a lot of the stuff I do is about visualization, right? Like with, uh, like art therapy or visual stuff. Like, it does kind of feel like it does sort of live here. It's the mind's eye, right? We talked about like tapping into the mind's eye, which is like an incredible source of wisdom.
[00:21:18] It is that, it's that third eye. It's the things we can't see, but it's the, the metaphors and the symbols and the, our like beautiful visual processing
[00:21:27] Jessica: Absolutely Yeah.
[00:21:27] its dreams and visions. Any of that, you know, it's like where like hypnotherapy and the visualizations and Yeah. All of that,
[00:21:36] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:37] Jessica: all of that is right up there.
[00:21:39] So the crown chakra, it's either like the very top of the head or really like the space above the head. Um, Sahasrara chakra and it's like this connection, right? So in the book, it's leading with connection. It's about, the bigger picture, it's about connection to whatever helps you feel in relation to things that are bigger than you.
[00:22:05] So for some people, that's spirit. It's God, it's nature. It's you know, science, I would argue, right? Like we're going out and looking at the stars and
[00:22:14] space and nature
[00:22:15] Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:22:16] Jessica: its like, oh, right. I am part of this vast connection. Like I am it and it is me, and I am one part of it.
[00:22:25] So it's like this. Both the third Eye and the Crown to me are like these deep wisdom centers, and it's about having this understanding of humanity at large and how we fit into it. We get to work with consciousness knowing that we have thoughts, but we are not our thought. And the shadow is attachment, which is a fun one to work with, I think, especially with money
[00:22:55] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:56] Jessica: and
[00:22:56] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:56] Jessica: what money
[00:22:57] can buy what we are willing to like have come our way and also be released, cling too tightly,
[00:23:05] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:06] Jessica: so it's yeah It's this really sort of spacious, um, wise big picture energy.
[00:23:15] Rachel: I think it's interesting, like when I think of attachment, you know, I'm thinking Pema Chödrön and writings about how, you know, just when we think, ah, this is how it is. Nope. It seems like that that's the danger. It's like, oh, this is, this is a universal truth, right? Like, ah, yeah, this is a universal truth.
[00:23:33] And you know, Buddhism says uh that's no such thing. And 'cause just when you attach to that idea of some kind of universality, that is where it crumbles, right? Like, oh, this is, oh, everyone should do it like this. Nope. You know that that isn't the truth here or that that is attaching to something that is solid that
[00:23:52] Jessica: Yeah, and
[00:23:53] Rachel: doesn't actually exist.
[00:23:54] Jessica: For people it's easiest to think about the, the things, the tangible items in our home that we're attached to, but we can be attached to all kinds of stuff
[00:24:04] Rachel: Mm mm-hmm.
[00:24:05] Jessica: Like different versions of ourselves, right? Or I'm attached
[00:24:09] to yeah, this particular identity and then I lose my job and like, who am I without that identity? Um, yeah, it's huge. So
[00:24:18] Rachel: Huge.
[00:24:18] Jessica: attachment can come
[00:24:19] up in a lot of places and I think that maybe our financial standings or if we change our relationship with money,
[00:24:27] Rachel: Hmm. the attachment might show up there as well.
[00:24:30] Mm-hmm. Just when you think I'm always set, or I'm good, then. Yeah. And then a parent dies, right? And, you know, something really breaks, open those cracks. And I could see, I almost see like shooting right back down to root. I mean, it just seems like this then connects right back down to a fear, right?
[00:24:48] Connects right back down to foundational stuff. I mean, I know we always see the chakras as kind of like lined up, but like it also feels like there's a cycle to it or there's a looping
[00:24:57] Jessica: i mean its why I called it
[00:24:59] It's All Connected because I think no matter where you go inside ourselves things are connected, right? And you and I are connected. And so when we're in relationship
[00:25:11] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:11] Jessica: with others, which is part of the human experience, we are constantly mirroring back to one another.
[00:25:19] We're, as I learn about you, I'm learning about me and if we're all up here. We can sort of float off into space a little bit. And so we need the grounding, right? And if we're, we're too much in the material, in the, you know, in the solidness of the root, and we don't have the ability to dream and be open. So within each of the energy centers
[00:25:45] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:45] Jessica: we also talk about what does it feel like to be balanced, right? So that we're not. Um, in excess
[00:25:52] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:52] Jessica: or in deficit in either one of these, right? So we talked about it a little bit in the, in the third chakra. That confidence, that power center is just such an easy example of, of exerting power over people or giving all of our power away. Neither one of those is a sense of empowerment,
[00:26:12] Rachel: Right.
[00:26:12] Jessica: like, I know that I am deserving to take up space and
[00:26:15] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:16] Jessica: Um, so yeah,
[00:26:18] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:19] Jessica: I think that when we have that wisdom to attach and let go, we, we have to be grounded at the same time.
[00:26:27] Rachel: I, I feel like this, like you said, like this is a framework and I'm thinking of all these other frameworks that I know and love where like these, these are multiple ways of knowing these are even, it can relate to this is parts work, right? This is that every, every part of us. Has a, is a valid participant in our being and our growth.
[00:26:47] And yeah, there's some situations where different parts are, are pulled more forward or pushed more back. And it's actually, you know, growth comes from communing and acknowledging the wisdom of all these parts. And that's how I'm like interpreting a lot of the, the chakra stuff. I was like, yeah, these are all different ways of knowing.
[00:27:03] That are embodied and have their own logic and intelligence. Um, and sometimes it can feel a little crazy like, why did I do that yesterday and why am I, or why did I do this today? Or, or, or whatever. And sometimes we feel like, oh, I'm not all one person. But yeah, guess what? Actually none of us are really that as consistent as maybe we think because we've so many ways of, of being and knowing.
[00:27:24] And this is one way to understand that.
[00:27:26] Jessica: you know, I, I invite exploration into each of the elements. I think the elements are really fun to work with, right? The root chakra, the element is earth, and then it's water, fire, air, sound, light thought and. those are ways to just play with it, right? Like in that root, my foundation feels unsteady or unsafe or unstable, um, I can be like the earth and I can like slow it down, right? And,
[00:27:57] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:58] it helps
[00:27:59] Jessica: me connect with the energy of that center to feel more safe, just feel more steady to, remember like to, let's
[00:28:07] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:07] Jessica: look
[00:28:07] at the numbers, right? Like, let's just get really clear and slow things down.
[00:28:11] Rachel: Yeah.
[00:28:12] Jessica: and yeah, so I think there's, there's wisdom in each of the elements associated with it also of like, how can I work with that?
[00:28:19] How can I commune with that particular energy to
[00:28:23] Rachel: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:23] Jessica: feel more whole?
[00:28:24] Rachel: And like I would think like also some, some of these things are more resonant and some of these things like, oh, that's a growth edge for me. Which is like such a, such a nice. Journey as you go. And we're, we're never done. I'm wonder if I could ask you, or we could just touch on, you know, acknowledging the lineage that all of this came from.
[00:28:41] I'm thinking, just backing up, you know, it is a framework that has very ancient roots and comes from, comes from India, right. And the yoga tradition. And it has been, you know, interpreted and, and. Gone worldwide. And I'm wondering how do you place that like acknowledgement where this knowledge came from?
[00:28:59] Jessica: yeah, exactly, like it's in this wisdom of, of the yoga tradition and that there are these layers of the body. So one of, one of my teachers that I've studied the most with is, um, Seane Corn and she then gives, you know, homage to like the teachers that she's studied with, in India.
[00:29:19] Um, one of the teachers that I've studied the most with in terms of the chakra knowledge itself is Anodea Judith. She has like Wheels of Life and Eastern Body, Western Mind and so much about how we get there is within the yoga tradition, they talk about the five sheaths of the body, the five koshas, and the outermost being the physical body. And the second layer that moves inward is the energy body and so it's the Pranamaya kosha, and this is our like vital sheath is what it translates to. And that's. Yeah, that energy center that is underneath the physical, the outer layer, you know, that's like our food sheath. Um, and so it goes the outer into the energy body, into the mind and emotion and the bliss body. And so there's, Yeah, there's so much wisdom within Anodea Judith's books and you know, in the very beginning of mine, I was like, I'm not gonna make the case for the chakras i'm not gonna give you all of the details of them because these experts who've come before me, have done that work and so I'm kind of jumped in to talk about it in terms of how do we relate it to our leadership and our healing. Um, but yeah, there's all of our experiences are living with us in the body. And so when we have our yoga practice or when we're in different learning spaces, can kind of get into that physical body and discover what's underneath that lives in that energy body.
[00:30:55] Rachel: You know, one thing I really love and appreciate about your book is that with each chapter there is a yoga sequence, these beautiful illustrations to go with it and it, which was a surprise. I was like. Oh, this is lovely to bring both the visual aspect and the embodiment and now we will do it. And we're not just gonna sit here and read.
[00:31:11] I mean, I feel like that's such a beautifully balanced approach, that it's not like yoga poses for leadership. That's not what it's called. Um, and it was, it was very cool. Like the visual part of me was like. That's great. And the physical part, right? Like, oh yeah. Now I, I've read about this now I could actually like do it to help with that integration.
[00:31:31] Jessica: yeah its definitely meant to be lived and you know, my my background is an educator and so I tried to bring. knowledge of like how people learn into the book. And some people love to learn by reading. Some people really learn well by doing, right? Like, so there's plenty of practices and very tangible exercises.
[00:31:51] And then there's the yoga practice and the meditation. then some people really learn by stories and by writing their own stories. And so there's a forth theres countless opportunities to pause and reflect, because yeah, we kind of need those different modalities to, to learn and make change rather than keeping it all up here
[00:32:14] Rachel: Right, which actually just, it's so meta, right? And then it relates to all of these ways of being and everything. Well, it's beautiful. It's a beautiful book. And just how can people get in touch with you, learn about your book and your work?
[00:32:25] Jessica: I mean the easiest way is you can go to my website, it's leadandbewell.com Um, you can follow on Instagram at leadandbewell
[00:32:35] Rachel: I wanna ask just my final little question that I ask all my guests, which is Jess, if you were to take a quiet beat, probably waking up a bit of this third eye chakra. Hello, inner wisdom, inner vision. I want you to notice your first intuitive hit. When I ask this question, I want you to picture your money as a creature.
[00:32:53] Real imagined. No judgment. It's always right. Whatever comes to you. Would you be willing to share
[00:33:01] what uh, image you were brought? It's a bird. What's the bird up to? Could you say more?
[00:33:07] Jessica: Um, the bird is kind of flying around and it's blue and white and it's beautiful.
[00:33:15] It's quiet. It's like not noisy. It's like flying around, enjoying the view.
[00:33:20] Rachel: Busy, busy, beautiful bird. And if you could ask it right now, what? What could it use right now to feel complete? What does it need right now to feel complete? And again, first intuitive hit, and I'd like you to give that to the creature.
[00:33:36] Jessica: Oh, I wanted like a, a branch to land on.
[00:33:40] Rachel: And as you give the bird the branch that it needs. How does that feel?
[00:33:44] Jessica: Oh, oh, am I getting emotional? ,
[00:33:46] It had some like baby birds with it, um, on that branch that it wanted to like settle.
[00:33:53] Rachel: As we breathe into this sense of that you gave the creature what it needed and this connection and it settled in, you can breathe in this feeling of a little, little bit of completion there.
[00:34:06] Jessica: Hmm.
[00:34:07] Rachel: It's funny, I, so I do this exercise with myself and a few months ago, my money was a flock of birds and. When I asked them what, or it, the flock, what it needed, I said, give us some damn branches.
[00:34:20] We're tired of flying. They were like, they were also just like, come on, girl. And, and it was in a sense of branches and they landed. They're like, yeah, we can fly, but like, we're tired. My, my Birds had a very different attitude. They were a little bit snarkier than yours. Um, but it was like, I was like, oh yeah, I feel that too.
[00:34:41] Just like, give me a place to land. I need a place to be. Do give yourself some time to process this and maybe make some images. Well, Jess this has been a delightful conversation of thinking of. You know, the body having all these ways of being and that we have all these ways of knowing, and I know your work is really in, you know, how we can be leaders.
[00:35:00] I really appreciate you taking, okay, now we're gonna take an adjacent topic of money and see it through this lens and how this framework can really work to create balance and movement and healing and grounding. Um, with all these ways of, of knowing. ,
[00:35:15] Jessica: Yeah, I mean, it was so insightful for me to think about and yeah. Again, just why it's, I don't know, it's so applicable in so many ways, but, and I just strong
[00:35:24] Rachel: Oh, I
[00:35:25] thought,
[00:35:25] Jessica: know, your, your throat chakra really is so you have this platform to give voice to money, right.
[00:35:33] Which is so challenging for folks to talk about often that
[00:35:36] Rachel: yeah.
[00:35:37] Jessica: I feel like you open up such a beautiful
[00:35:38] space to do
[00:35:40] Rachel: Oh, I appreciate that. Well, thank you, Jess. Well, I will see. I'll see you around this world.
[00:35:46]
[00:35:50] Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club podcast. You can find resources, links, everything from this episode in the show notes below, or at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, you probably really love my free email course on curbing impulse spending with compassion and mindfulness, you can check it out moneyhealingclub.com/challenge.
[00:36:11] Do you have a question or a topic about financial therapy or about just living in this life with money? I'd love to get your voicemail to be featured on a future episode of the podcast. Check it out at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. You'll see a big orange button there where you can record from any device you're on.
[00:36:31] You can also be anonymous. We are in this together and I really appreciate it. See you next time.