This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute mental health, financial, tax, or legal advice.
EPISODE SUMMARY
We’re revisiting this conversation with Angie Fitzpatrick as part one of a two-part series exploring Ashlee Piper’s book, No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet and Your Sanity.
Originally recorded during last year’s Money Healing Club book club, Rachel and Angie share their experiences just five days into the challenge. They explore why we have so much stuff we don’t need, how the returns system is broken, and why borrowing your neighbor’s rubber bands might be the key to building community. Plus, the surprising connection between gratitude and impulse spending.
With the No New Things Challenge returning to Money Healing Club, this conversation is the perfect place to start. Stay tuned for part two, when Rachel sits down with author Ashlee Piper to explore the bigger picture behind the challenge.
“She takes that challenge and turns it into something more, something about you know, it’s a manifesto about how overconsumption is killing the planet, driving us nuts. And stealing our money.” - Angie Fitzpatrick
Key Takeaways:
• Overconsumption affects your money, mental health, AND the environment simultaneously
• The average American has 300,000 things - no wonder we forget what we already have!
• Cultivating gratitude practice directly reduces impulse spending (backed by eco-psychologists)
• The SUPER acronym helps you find alternatives to buying new (Secondhand, Upcycling, Paying nothing, Renting)
• Tracking your triggers reveals the patterns driving your purchases
About Angie Fitzpatrick:
You can also hear Angie discuss the financial burdens women face in 🚺 What the Wage Gap Doesn’t Tell You: The Hidden Financial Burdens Women Face.
Connect with Angie:
Website: https://www.angiefitzpatrickphd.com/
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN:
05:53 | What Makes This Buy Nothing Challenge Different
How Piper turns a simple challenge into a manifesto against hyper-consumption.
13:02 | The Rubber Band Win: Community Over Commerce
Real stories of borrowing from neighbors and building unexpected connections.
27:04 | The Trillion-Dollar Returns Industry
How “no questions asked” returns spawned a reverse logistics nightmare.
33:32 | Tracking Your Triggers
Identifying what drives you to shop and replacing it with actual joy.
Subscription Cancellation Update | October 2026
The FTC’s Click-to-Cancel rule, designed to make canceling subscriptions as easy as signing up, was struck down in 2025. The FTC is working to revive it, but many states already have their own subscription cancellation protections. Learn more:
• Subscription Cancellation Laws
• FTC Revives Click-to-Cancel Rule
📚 Resources Mentioned
• "The Serviceberry" by Robin Wall Kimmerer
💬 Join the Conversation!
What's the ONE category you could commit to not buying new for 30 days? Holiday decor? Clothes? Food? What childhood hobby could you rediscover instead of shopping? The Money Healing Club podcast wants to hear your "no new things" commitment - click the big orange button to tell us your story: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
🎧 Your next listen:
Check out our episode on impulse spending to understand the emotional drivers behind the urge to buy. https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast/s1e1
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Rachel Duncan (00:00)
if anyone has not experienced the feeling of walking out of a store empty handed, it's a rush. It can feel uncomfortable and it's incredibly empowering. Like this is my money and I have a choice here. And this is actually all about consent.
Rachel Duncan LPC CFT ATR-P (00:16)
Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Duncan.
I'm a licensed professional counselor, certified financial therapist, and art therapist, and you've come to the softest place to land in personal finance.
Just a note, this podcast is educational in nature and does not replace mental health care or legal or financial advice. So this episode today is actually part of a two-part series all about the 2025 book No New Things, a radically simple 30-day guide to saving money, the planet, and your sanity by Ashlee Piper Heads up, this episode, the part one, is actually a rerun. Last November,
We read No New Things Together in the Money Healing Club membership, and Angie Fitzpatrick from the club joined me for a fun little book club we had on our own. It was a chat while we were right about five days into the 30-day challenge. So you'll hear us talking about Halloween decor and the holidays coming up. and that's why the timing is just right, because we're bringing the No New Things Challenge back to the club right now.
Because this stuff is evergreen. I really wanted to bring this topic back because, In part two, I get to interview the author herself, Ashlee Piper. That episode will come out in a few weeks. So think of this episode today as your practical orientation. It's what the challenge actually looks like day to day, what it brought up for us, and what we were already getting out of it, even after five days.
After that, then come on over to part two, where Ashlee and I will get into more of the origin story of this: the bigger picture impact and plenty of fun tangents. In this episode, Angie and I each share the one thing we chose to say no to last year. For her, it was no new holiday decor. For me, it was no new food for a stretch, which meant finally facing my pantry full of pandemic beans. We talk about borrowing from neighbors.
And how a handful of rubber bands and a beach canopy turned into some real connections with people. Even those even with a neighbor whose Facebook posts made Angie's blood pressure rise. We get into our love lists, which are the quick hits and longer loves that light us up instead of shopping. We also get into Ashlee Piper's super acronym for when you really do need to get something.
But not new.
Angie also talks about what the book taught her about returns that made her a little bit mad, me too. We also talk about subscriptions, repairing stuff, ethically offloading stuff, giving yourself a break when you need one, and the rush of walking out of a store empty handed.
There's one important update on the subscription part. In this episode, I mention a rule that companies have to make it as easy to cancel a subscription as it was to sign up. That was called the FTC's click-to-cancel rule, and it was actually struck down in federal court later in 2025. So right now there's no federal click to cancel requirement. But the FTC has started the process of bringing a version of it back.
as of this recording in October of 2026 But I want you to know that a lot of states have their own auto renewal laws. So if canceling something feels impossible to you, it's worth looking up the rules where you live.
None of this no new things thing is about guilt or deprivation or minimalism. It's actually about going toward what you already love: creativity, community, values, and more wholehearted life. So let's talk about the things we don't usually say when we talk about the cost of shopping. Part one with Angie Fitzpatrick.
Rachel Duncan (04:06)
Okay, everyone, I've got Angie, Doctor Angie Fitzpatrick from the Money Healing Club, everybody, here on the pod, and we're gonna do a little book club talk. Angie, how you doing?
Angie Fitzpatrick (04:17)
Hey y'all. I'm doing good. I um I have a big glass of water in an a mason jar. I have no idea where I got this jar from. I didn't buy it. I don't buy jars. I just reuse jars. My husband kinda hates that. Because we have too many jars, probably. But I'm bringing some no new things vibes into the convo.
Rachel Duncan (04:38)
So I thinking it's a real symbol. It's a real symbol. And I have my favorite mug that I got at a thrift store. So while it was new to me, it is not a new thing.
Angie Fitzpatrick (04:48)
I love that there's a curve where the hand goes like
Rachel Duncan (04:53)
Everyone on video, look at this. It's a beautiful mug. I just wanna hold it forever. So I do everything. The delicious dish. Okay. Everyone. Yes.
Angie Fitzpatrick (05:02)
Let's do this.
Rachel Duncan (05:04)
So, some of you all might remember Angie's voice from a previous episode where we talked about women and money at the beginning of the year. It's still one of our top listened to episodes. So go back and check that out. But today we're kind of doing like a cozy thing because in the club, we've been reading this book called No New Things by Ashley Piper. And I just thought it was a
would be a timely thing for us to kind of talk about what we're loving and maybe not loving about the book here on the podcast. Cause it's the number one thing we're talking about is impulse spending. I just re released an episode about that. So this is a a kind of a cool guide for like how could we really dig into this for maybe bigger reasons than just financial. So Angie, kick us off. What what first strikes you about this book or how would you introduce the book to somebody?
Angie Fitzpatrick (05:53)
Okay, so here's what I love about this book. Because it okay, so I'll say that these buy nothing challenges aren't necessarily new, right? Like this has been around. What I really love about Piper is that she takes that challenge and turns it into something more, something about you know, it's a manifesto about how overconsumption is killing the planet, driving us nuts.
And stealing our money, right? So it's it's like she takes all of the things about hyper consumption and gives us some strategies that we can personally take in our everyday lives to push back and reclaim our time, our money, our space. So that's what I really love about this.
Rachel Duncan (06:40)
I agree. I agree. And actually I should read the subtitle of the book is No New Things, a radically simple 30 day guide to saving money, the planet, and your sanity. So it's got this like great Venn diagram, right? Because it's not like, oh, spend less money. Like you know, but why? What we get so much more than just hanging on to our money. That is an equal measure to the environmental impact as well as like our mental health and feeling better about ourselves. So it's
What I love, because it's like my whole thing, is that it's not about deprivation. It's really about going towards something, which is probably your values on all of these things. So I just I love anything that's like, let's just check lots of boxes by one by one action. Not saying it's easy, right? This is this is also a big challenge.
Angie Fitzpatrick (07:29)
Yeah. Um, it is a big challenge. It's a very intentional challenge. It's a challenge that encourages deep reflection on the practices. Excuse me. It's a deep reflection on the practices that kind of get us into this place where we suddenly look around our home and it's like, Why do I have so much junk? Where did all this junk come from? You know, she talks at the beginning of the book about how
The more stuff we have, the more stuff we have to take care of. And that eats into our time. Right. So, okay. So you know in the club we have this chat about no new things. And Rachel, you had invited us when we first started reading the book to pick a thing, just one thing that we're gonna say no to, like one new thing that we're gonna say no to this year. And I said, no new holiday decor.
So this was right around was before Halloween. My husband had just pulled out multiple tubs of Halloween stuff that we've collected over the years. And I didn't feel inspired looking at that stuff. I didn't feel like nostalgic. I just felt overwhelmed. I just realized like this is so much stuff and we have to put it all out and then we're gonna have to take it down.
And I don't want to do that anymore. So I made a commitment to one, get rid of some of that stuff and I did. But two, I'm not buying any more holiday decor this season. None. I'm just gonna use what I have and be happy with that. And if I feel inspired to do something, I don't know, I'm gonna get out some like paper and scissors with my kids and just make some cute paper snowflakes. Like Target doesn't need my money. But also, you know, a lot of my holiday stuff comes from thrift stores and I love thrift stores.
But I just I have to say no for this season and it feels good.
Rachel Duncan (09:25)
I know. I think that's I I sometimes I fall into that too 'cause I'm a big thrifter and I do think that can be part of the puzzle and Piper talks about that as well. But I'll still go to Goodwill and come home with more stuff than I need to do because it was a good deal, because it was so cheap. And like that kind of defeats the purpose when we think about like everything you bring into your home, it you're paying rent on it. You know, it's taking up time and energy, a space, maintenance, all that stuff. And and I'm
Definitely not a minimalist. I don't love that. I don't love anything that's hyper restriction. I love my things and I do a lot of projects and I've got kids. So yeah, we're gonna have like a good amount of stuff. But you know, it's also this thing of like we all probably have what we already need. Like we already have what we need. And and I will say, like, this it does come up from a place of privilege, right? This is sort of like, hey, are you housed? Do you have food? Do you have steady income? Do you, you know.
A lot of those boxes checking. This is not saying but like everyone on the planet should not acquire new things. She's definitely speaking to, I don't know, a quote unquote middle class audience where your our basic needs are met, right? So I think that's important to say. I I heard something years ago that like the average American has no fewer than three hundred thousand things. Like that's a number that I can't even and
Angie Fitzpatrick (10:47)
so.
Rachel Duncan (10:48)
in some way, shape or form, like and it's all cataloged in our heads somehow.
Right. Or it's a bl and so no wonder we forget we forget that we have certain things because there's just so much of it.
Angie Fitzpatrick (11:01)
Yeah. So I'm a neurospicy gal. And one of the challenges I have is if I put it in a drawer, it's gone forever. I have no idea that it exists. Right. Like I have to label it. I have to have a clear bin. And so that is something that I think about a lot when I'm taking stock of all the stuff I have, you know, or I think, you know what I need? I need this one tool. Didn't I buy that?
A while ago. Do I still have that? Is that a somewhere? So yeah, I think, you know, to your point that our relationship to stuff is not monolithic, right? Like folks with different income levels, different needs, we're gonna have a different relationship to things. What I like about Piper's approach to this No New Things challenge is that she does invite us to get clear about
Like, how are we bringing things into our life? So for example, um, like in the first week, she says, All right, friends, the next 30 days stuff is gonna come up. Maybe someone has a birthday or um you might be moving, right? Think about what you're going to need and how you can acquire it. So, yes, you could like just go onto Amazon, click buy, and someone will bring it to your house in two days, right?
Or you could put a call out to your neighborhood. You know, like maybe you're on Facebook and you're in the neighborhood group and you could say, Hey, does anybody have whatever? But like what you know, like a tool that you are going to need for one project. Do you have to buy that tool or could you borrow it from somebody? You know, could you pull out a gift card that you have for a place and use that to buy the thing? So she's really inviting us to be more intentional and more creative.
about how we bring stuff into our lives. And I like that.
Rachel Duncan (13:02)
Which is and really talking about impulse spending at its root. Like a lot of now, we can't anticipate everything, but there's quite a few things you if you real if we had a quiet moment, like December's coming up, right? And like and have as much as you can a few things in place, thinking ahead a little bit. And you know what I love she talks about then, you know, this Venn diagram again of how these things overlap. Not only, you know, when you borrow a tool from your neighbor, not only are you saving money on that, but now you have a connection with your neighbor.
And I think, doesn't she have a story about like borrowing a rolling pin from a neighbor? And now like she's learning to bake from her. And now she has this whole new friendship. So I think that's it's not just about spending less. It's actually like such an invitation to community. I have a win. Just yesterday, my one of my sons is an engineer at heart, and he was creating this Lego machine that shoots rubber bands automatically. It's like a semi-automatic rubber sheet. That's a cool band shooter. That's so cool. It's very cool.
And we couldn't find enough rubber bands that were the right size. And I happened to see my neighbor across the street, who also has a son. And I said, Hey, do you just happen to have some rubber bands? Not only did he have rubber bands, but his son had made a rubber band machine gun years ago and showed my son about it and did this whole Lego tour. Like it was this whole thing. And you know what? Now we have this nice little golden thread with our neighbor. And he gave him a handful of rubber bands that are perfect.
Angie Fitzpatrick (14:28)
Right.
Rachel Duncan (14:30)
And I was this close just like adding it to a cart. Let's just get some more rubber bands. And they're like, no, let's go check across the street. So, you know, it's and it takes it's a little bit of vulnerability, right? That it's not like they're all gonna work out so beautifully, but I think, you know, if you were ever approached, like, hey, could I use like absolutely. Like we all have so many tools and so much stuff.
Angie Fitzpatrick (14:50)
Okay, yes, yes. So all right, I'm gonna share a similar community win. Okay. We live in Ohio by Lake Erie and love going to the beach. And it's so hot on the beach. So we bought one of those canopies, the kind that you could use for a backyard barbecue, and could also use it at the beach. We actually only go to the beach like once or twice a year. So we don't use it that often. In our neighborhood Facebook group, a woman who lives down the street from me, whose Facebook posts sometimes
I don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, right? And so it's easy for like my blood pressure to start rising when I'm reading her post. Well, she asked if anybody had one of these canopies. She needed it for a Halloween party. And I was like, you know, Angie, maybe you could see this person as someone more than, you know, an annoying person on the internet. And you could connect with them, share the thing. And anyway, it ended up being really nice. And it was it was just nice to like
connect with her outside of reading posts that irritate me. And it gave her a human face, right? So yeah, big wins.
Rachel Duncan (15:55)
So you're saying it's the answer to world peace as well. my
Angie Fitzpatrick (15:58)
Right.
Yes. S solve the climate crisis, save your money and bring about world peace. Absolutely.
Rachel Duncan (16:07)
There we go. We need to see each other as three-dimensional beings who still like need to borrow a garment steamer, you know, stuff like that. Exactly. So also I will say Piper is definitely focusing on stuff, on items, which is great. But, you know, there's also an invitation, hey, you could also extend it to other stuff like services and things that are not stuff. But she definitely focuses on stuff, which I think is fair enough. But someone in the club actually mentioned to me like
I'm actually gonna think about like how I go to the salon and stuff like that. So she has like her introduction. She came from like being a corporate high earner person when she kind of had some of these crisis several sort of personal crises about like where's my money going and why do I not know where any of my things are, and kinda did her own challenges and got that started. And then part two.
is actually quite a good twenty pages on like the history of consumerism, which I think is super fascinating. You know, just like how consumerism has shifted over the last hundred years, how consumerism is contagious. She has a chapter called Marketing Made Me Do It and Consumerism is Contagious. So really good. Also just normalizing. Let's back up here, 'cause I think so many people come to me like, Oh, I'm a garbage person because I impulse spend or I can't get control of my spending. And I never see it as a personal failure.
because of these huge systemic things. Like we have been very much groomed to consume. So it's just like a good little geek out, you know, if you want to do the geek out. You can also just fast forward to part three, which is the thirty day plan, which is great too. It's like, okay, now we're we're anxious to get this going. Oh, and I will say, like at the beginning I kind of wanted to choose one category as well. So for a little while I've been trying to do no new food. And I organized my freezer, got rid of old stuff.
And I literally vacuumed my freezer because there was like all the stuff at the bottom. That felt great because it was gross, y'all. And I also went through like my pantry and just like, what's in here? Why do we all have no lasagna noodles? Like when's last time you made a lasagna? So I was able to designate a few things for some food banks that weren't expired, but also just like bringing up like I mean, I still have all these beans from the pandemic. Remember when we all bought a lot of beans? Like I have so many beans now. Pro some of them probably too old to really cook up, but
It's been really good. Like I've made, yeah, some bean soup. I've been doing more baking. Just kind of like using up like why do we have all this stuff that it will not it will not last forever, even like shelf stable stuff. So that's been my little personal challenge, which has been which has been really good. We still we still have so much food.
Angie Fitzpatrick (18:39)
Yeah.
Seeing you post about, you know, your food challenge got me thinking about our pantry and our freezer. And so yeah, I'm like, all right, do something with these lentils. Don't let them just sit there. I did find some rice that could not be salvaged. I will say one of the things you can do with expired beans is art or uh think about your local childcare centers or preschools that have those sensory bins.
Rachel Duncan (19:09)
The idea.
Angie Fitzpatrick (19:10)
You could put out a call on the the free stuff page or you know, whatever kind of free community circle you have, and and invite folks to take your old beans and do something good with them.
Rachel Duncan (19:24)
It's great point. That's a really good point. And then and when it comes down to it, comp try to compost before putting it in the in the trash, right? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So we actually in the club we've been posting each of the days like prompts. And we're only on what are we on? Day we're on day five. So we're still kind of early in this, but already it's, you know, there's a lot of great clarity and and she kind of each day is a different little micro angle.
But the first week is is kind of about the foundations. And I this kind of thinking ahead a little bit, I think that's super important. And I also love, she starts with, what are you going to do? So I wanted to talk about that because it's sort of I I talk about like what's your pleasure practice. And she calls it list your loves. She's super into alliteration. So this is like a little homework, and I'll drop this in the the show notes. So like you you gotta make two lists of things that you love.
To do because you know, you're going into some pretty big habit changes, especially if we're really used to just buying the thing if you need it. So we don't want to go into this feeling like on edge or deprived. So she says, So one list is your quick hits, which are like short, easy grabs. So I think of like stuff that you don't have to do any planning for or spend any money for, like looking out the window, drinking a cup of tea.
For me, like putting on hand lotion, right? Texting a friend, doing a light stretch, right? These are just like these easy grabs we all know we should do. What I love is like, no, if you are going to change your habits in this way from like this high dopamine activity, like we've got to bring in more pleasant experiences for you to connect with yourself and feel good. And then she has the longer and luxe list, which is like, you know, the heavier lifts, the like actually going to an exercise class or a yoga class.
You know, it's stuff that's more accessible but is longer and more restorative. Also like taking a bath, reading for a while. I love she says organizing your purse. Right? Like something that's a little more of a project, but like is feels really good to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Making stuff, getting into your hobbies and stuff like that. So for me, I was really glad I wrote that list because I'm I'm a musician, but I don't spend a lot of time practicing. And I got this very cool drum for my birthday, and I was making my
my longer and luxe list. I was like, I haven't practiced that drum very much in the last few weeks. And I just like stopped what I'm doing and just like practiced my drum. Oh, and it felt so good. Andy, I'm wondering, was it are there anything on your like quick hits or longer and luxe list that you like like going back to?
Angie Fitzpatrick (21:59)
Yes. So um one of the things that I put on my quick hit list is lighting candles. I have so many candles that I've accumulated. Either people have gifted them to me or I've picked them up at thrift stores or shops. And so just reminding myself, light a candle. Smell something good in your house. Look at fire, right? Like activate those senses. So that's been nice. And I think I also had shared in the club that I have all of these greeting cards that I
I like to collect greeting cards at thrift stores and yard sales. And so one of the things I'm gonna do is I'm gonna sit down and write a card. That's like an in-between thing, right? I don't have to plan a lot, but I do have to sit down for a minute. And so yeah, that feels good to think about connecting and, you know, doing something besides dropping money. And I'll say those quick hits and what's the luxe? What does she call the other one?
Rachel Duncan (22:53)
Longer and Lux.
Angie Fitzpatrick (22:55)
Longer in Lux.
Those really come in handy in that first week too when we start identifying the triggers, right? Like what is the thing that happens that prompts you to like chase that quick hit of dopamine through shopping? You know, what's the thing that happens before you open the Amazon app or even hit up the drive thru? Like you said, Rachel Piper really focuses a lot on the things that we accumulate, but I don't know about folks here. I spend too much money on takeout.
And I really want to pair back. It the food doesn't even taste that good. I mean, let's be real. Like it's
Rachel Duncan (23:30)
It's pricey. Yeah.
Angie Fitzpatrick (23:32)
pricey. It doesn't taste that good. It's full of stuff that I shouldn't be having every day. But anyway, so I'm really curious, like, okay, what is the thing that's driving me to that and how could I pull out a nice thing of lotion from my purse instead of, you know, going to Starbucks? So
Rachel Duncan (23:49)
Yeah. And I'm noticing two things, like in both of our examples, it's it's shopping our own closets. It's actually like enjoying the things we already have. All of these examples. I already have candles. I already have musical instruments. You know, I already have a freezer full of food. And so it's very much just like slowing down, appreciate what you already have. And I believe it's in the book, The Service Berry by Robin Kimmer. She notes that ego psychologists have said that when you have a more active practice of gratitude, impulse spending goes down.
I feel like all of these are this is again this then diagram, this nice overlap. Not only am I feeling better in my body, these are things that align with my values and help me decrease impulse spending, like I'm cultivating gratitude at that same time, which just has like a multitude of effects. Like I'm so grateful I have this mug, I'm so grateful I have that candle, I'm so grateful I have this present or whatever it was.
Or this time to call a friend or have this connection with a neighbor, right? And I think cultivating that gratitude, it already gets the ball rolling.
Angie Fitzpatrick (24:51)
Where
Rachel Duncan (24:52)
Where spending less is not about restriction. It's about like this returning to a core value.
Angie Fitzpatrick (24:57)
Oh. I love that. And think that's so important and something that I want to work with more when it comes to my children. So my kids like to be on the tablet and play the games, right? The Minecraft, the Roblox, whatever. And and they get a lot of advertising to buy new packages, right? Like for $3.99, you can get all these things. And I'm really finding it difficult to
encourage my kids to pause to think about that purchase, right? So I'm gonna try bringing in some more of that gratitude just in general, not have it be part of the conversation about whether or not they can get a five dollar advance on their allowance, but just cultivate the gratitude in general.
Rachel Duncan (25:44)
Yeah, and it's not about being preachy. You know, I think we can be honest. that would feel good. I can understand why that feels alluring. Yeah, right. Just like I'm understanding that too. But then we're gonna bring in all these other sides of like our knowledge. I also know that we have gift season coming up. I also know that, last week was a spendy week. Like we can bring in sort of all the sources of knowing. And I do think a challenge like this can be helpful instead of going through all the decision fatigue.
Is, but you what, this month we're actually trying to not buy any new things. And that can, I think that can be a nice shorthand if you want it, right? Hey, the default is actually not buying anything new. And we're going to give that a try and see how that feels. And it doesn't mean we're going to do it forever, you know. And she's like, I think she's very open with that. Like it might not be forever, but it will probably aspects of this will stick. And I do think it's that slowing down, considering, especially looking at
You know, how consumerism and marketing works, like, oh, none of this is in my interest, it's all in the company's interest for the most part.
Angie Fitzpatrick (26:50)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Rachel Duncan (26:52)
All right, let's talk about any other prompts from this week that you like. Where's the acronym?
Angie Fitzpatrick (26:57)
While you're looking for the acronym, can I talk about returning merchandise?
Rachel Duncan (27:02)
And love returns.
Angie Fitzpatrick (27:04)
This is about wrangling returns. And I do have some stuff that I need to return that has been sitting there for a few days. This was a good reminder. That window closes, girl, get out and bring it back. But here's the thing that really surprised me and pissed me off. Okay, so did you know, Rachel, that JCPenney is the store.
That introduced the idea of no questions asked returns. You buy something, you don't like it, you can bring it back. We will give you your money back. They introduced this about 25 years ago. Okay. Like two percent of the stuff, what does it say? Only two percent of purchases were returned. So now every year in the US, we send back three point five billion products, eighty percent of which was usable.
And this practice has even spawned a reverse logistics industry and our returns are like worth a trillion dollars a year. Back. We're buying stuff that we're not even using, then we're sending it back.
Rachel Duncan (28:14)
And twenty percent of it yeah, yeah. It's just this gross kind of back and forth. It yeah, it's interesting. The when I first met my husband who's from Ukraine and and we spent some time in Ukraine, there's no returns in Ukraine. And it was such it it we had several very comical things where like you have to sit in the store, like I think his parents wanted a blender, and we go to the store, we spent all day because we had to decide that was the right one.
Because we could not bring it back. And I was kind of like, well, we'll just get it. Doesn't work, bring it up. We'll bring it back. But like it don't work that way. Or like even some food. Like we got some like some dried fruit that I thought was a little bit off. I was like, why don't we take it back? And the manager questioned us about it. And I realized, this is such a cultural thing that like customers always write. You can always bring it back. Like it's not like that into the rest of the world. So if there aren't easy returns.
Like, look how you have to slow down. You know, you really have to take your time and you have to research it and you have to feel good about it. And all of that, it feels like more of a risk. And here, like for on the consumer side, the risk has been eliminated, but we're just pushing that off, like environmentally and logistically. And then we're paying for that, right? Because if there's all of this like reverse market, we're paying for that. Everything you're buying is also having to fund the whole system that's going to handle the returns.
Angie Fitzpatrick (29:43)
Yes. Oh, it's so wild. And it's something that I hadn't really thought about. And and so here's where like I think I said I'm I'm pissed about this. Here's where that anger comes from. In thinking it's not necessarily like, Angie, you're a horrible person. You buy things in a turnum, right? Like, no, I'm a human operating in a system that a system that has been set up to prey on my emotions, encourage me to see stuff.
as the fix-all solution for whatever problem comes up in my life. And then encourages me to bring it back, knowing full well that they probably can't sell it again. Right. And and it's just like, wow. Yeah. Time to reevaluate the system. I'm I'm definitely going to be, like you said, taking a little more time with my purchases in general and thinking about return. Cause the truth is there are a lot of things that I've forgotten about them and I miss the window and
You know, that was money that I could have put in my retirement and I didn't, or whatever else I could have done with it. But I've been thinking about retirement a lot lately. Middle-aged woman here.
Rachel Duncan (30:48)
That's another episode for sure. I mean, I honestly get a dopamine hit from the return because I'm like, give me my money back. Like, I love it. I think it feels so good. She has a really cool acronym, which I wanted to talk about because it's a nice little filter to think about something when you when you're needing something, because we all will need things. So the acronym is super. S is for shopping secondhand. Right. Could do I have to get this brand new? Like
Is there another market for this? Either from thrift stores or online, you know, whatever it is. You is for upcycling or using. So like, could I reimagine something I already have? Like I went through this the other night. There was an event at my kids' school. We were kind of dressing up for it, and I really was committed to not buy a new dress. And so I have this long black dress, but it was kind of like frayed. And I like sewed this ribbon on the strap. I should show you, I should take a picture.
It looks so good, but I really like upcycled this dress to like be more formal by just like sewing something on it. It was really fun. I even got like compliments on it. I'm like, okay, this is so funny. So that's upcycling. P is paying nothing. Like, do you have any store credit already? Or a gift card you need to use? Or are you already paying, say, for like some membership that you're not utilizing? Also getting getting something for free. Like, hey, we got these rubber bands for free. Like, could you just ask?
Does anyone have this I could borrow or like have? Asking folks in your network, you know, finding it I love finding it in the wild, like the curb. Oh, you guys, this is my curb tonight, is getting stuff off the curb. I just like love it. It's it's a little bit of a problem. But even if I don't need the thing, I will get it from the curb just so it doesn't go in the landfill. I sometimes will pick things up from the curb and then just take it straight to Goodwill. So like it doesn't get trashed.
Angie Fitzpatrick (32:36)
Yeah.
Rachel Duncan (32:38)
Oh, I know. But I mean someone could have gotten it for free. You know, I don't know, because a lot of stuff it could well doesn't get sold. Ugh, it's such a problem. Yeah. It's problem. And then R is renting, borrowing, or sharing. So, you know, this S-U-P-E-R thing is just like a nice little thing to look through to like, you know, could you do without, could you do with something else? Could you get it from a place, you know, that is not buying retail? And I just I really like that. I think it's a very handy.
little guide and kind of like stop and question, does it have to be brand new?
Angie Fitzpatrick (33:09)
Yeah. 'Cause that's the point. This is about being more intentional. Right. 'Cause I like in imp impulse purchases are the opposite of that, right? It's a thing that we just we just do it. We get into this this habit. And this is an invitation to pause to reflect. Yeah. I love the the acronym too. Really great ideas there. And I've been Yeah.
Rachel Duncan (33:32)
Another thing she introduces in the first week and really encourages us to carry on the whole time is tracking triggers. And you brought that up, right? Like, you know, hey, if it's 10 PM and I'm on and I'm doom scrolling, like that's a trigger for me to start buying stuff. Or if I've had a bad day at work or, you know, what whatever it might be. You know, kids have the day off from school. You know, there's lots of things. Holidays. So you could be the trigger could be something about your mood. It could be something about the outside world.
You know, again, it's a little it could be a little of that looking ahead, like, wow, when it comes to say Christmas, I'm really triggered into, you know, spending more than I intend to. So let's like note that, or certain experiences that you might have throughout the day. When she says, you know, tra you track them. It's just like a mindful curiosity. Review your triggers with compassion and curiosity and celebrate yourself. So I I love that. It's kind of like it starts off on day five, but that's really a beautiful thing to track.
throughout the challenge because like this also just has a ripple effect into your mental health in general, doesn't it?
Angie Fitzpatrick (34:36)
Yeah. I mean oh if you are somebody who does some impulse shopping, there might be some other areas in your life where your impulses are also driving your behaviors, right? At least I find that true for myself. I should use the self language area. I find right. I'm impulsive in a lot of different ways. So I really appreciate the invitation to slow down. Wow. And that's only the first week, right?
Rachel Duncan (35:01)
Dude, it's like so much.
Angie Fitzpatrick (35:03)
There's so much.
Rachel Duncan (35:05)
I mean if anything, if anyone just wants to do the first week, like so much will happen. But yeah, let's like yeah, anything you want to say, like looking ahead.
Angie Fitzpatrick (35:13)
Okay, so week two, she gets into slashing subscriptions. And this reminds me too of like in the Get Your Money Organized challenge. That's one of the first things you invite folks to do, right? Look at your subscriptions. It's such an easy way to look at where your money's going and to just pause and ask yourself do I really need all of these things that I've subscribed to? And what's really interesting is
the ways in which subscriptions have become cornerstone of a lot of our purchasing. So I, you know, I think for example about going to get a car wash. I don't know if your community is full of car washes, but our community has so many of those car washes. And every time I go, the invitation is to sign up for a subscription, right? And for this much per month, you know, XY number of car washes. And I did actually get a subscription the first time I went.
And it was really hard to cancel it, Rachel. I think I had to like I had to find a number and then call it and sit on the phone for about 15 minutes before a human came on so I could cancel it. And then of course it was like, Are you sure you want to do this? Um, and for those of us who are very conflict avoidant, right? Like the last thing you want to do is have to tell another human being that you don't want the thing that they're selling you. So yeah, that's I think one of those that's some low-hanging fruit, right? Looking at subscriptions and just
Cutting out the ones you don't need anymore.
Rachel Duncan (36:46)
takes some, you know, what I would call like the boring financial self-care stuff. You know, I think probably all of us, I know I do, at least every week there's something like that, some dreaded email or phone call to make that has to do with your money. And and we all need to do it. Like the it's sort of regardless of how much money you have, well we all need to kind of maintain it in this way. And yeah.
it's so crappy. I think I mentioned on the subscriptions episode of the podcast, yeah, there is some legislation out there where companies, if they offer a subscription, they have to make it as easy to sign off as it is to sign on. So hopefully if anyone notices things like that, like that car wash ca is probably out of compliance if they're still doing that, right? It's like, well, it was a lot easier to sign up for that than get off of it. So I don't quite know your course of action on that. Well, I'll look it up. But this is like consumer protection rights stuff.
You know? 'Cause it's it can, I think it can be really predatory. let's see. Ah, I'm excited about day fourteen, ethically offload. This gives me a lot of anxiety of like, okay, I want to get rid of things. How can I do it in a way that is less likely to go in the landfill and could like actually help someone else out? There are some things that also just are gonna go in the landfill and uh ah
It's such a crappy feeling. And I spend a lot of time, you know, sourcing that. And then it slows down the process because I wanna be ethical about it. So I in honesty, I have not read that chapter. I'm just reading the titles of the chapters.
Angie Fitzpatrick (38:16)
I'm gonna say something real quick. I have been landfilling a lot of stuff this past month. And and I'm somebody who, yeah, cares very much about ethically offloading. I ran a compost, community composting company for a hot minute. But I realized about a month ago that my commitment to composting and recycling and all of that stuff was starting to really drag on me. And so I said,
I'm just gonna give myself permission for a month to landfill more things. I've cleared out some clutter, but I have found too, like, oh, I really like it is important to me. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna bring out my compost bucket again and we're gonna start composting. So, you know, I just wanna say to folks, like, if you're one of those people who sometimes feels bogged down by that, give yourself permission to take a little break and then return to the practice, you know, because listen, there are so many problems with our climate right now.
You taking a little break for your mental health or or whatever, depending on the season of your life, is totally fine. You can do that.
Rachel Duncan (39:22)
Especially compared to like hospital waste or industrial waste. I mean, I'm sure that home waste is a slice of that pie, but it's a pretty small slice of the pie when you compare it to everything else. And I think, you know, there's a lot out there in terms of greenwashing and people I'm gonna reduce my carbon footprint. This is not something on an individual level that's gonna make much of a difference. It will make a difference on an industry-wide level. So do what you can and we live in kind of a broken system when it comes to our stuff.
Angie Fitzpatrick (39:52)
And going upstream and stopping the purchase is gonna be more effective than composting it, right? Like go through your fridge before you make your grocery list. Exactly.
Rachel Duncan (40:02)
Exactly. So I'm looking forward to that part of it. And, you know, I think I do think we run the risk in this book of being so aware and being so riddled with guilt, right? Like, oh, now I know that I'm a consumerist and I buy too much stuff or I have too much stuff and then I can't upload it and it's all like really tough. And actually, there was a member of our club recommended this book who and she had read it some time ago and felt like there was a lot of good stuff in it and also feeling incredibly
Incredibly guilty for a lot of like of consumers behavior or hey, there are just some things I'm gonna buy new. I have limits about what I will buy secondhand. And I think there's we can all invite ourselves to have a maybe a bit more of a range of what this looks like for us on an individual level because these are huge systemic things.
Angie Fitzpatrick (40:52)
Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel Duncan (40:53)
Yeah. So lots of reflection. I love her reflection questions. my gosh.
She has another kind of bonus tip, which is to keep a log of the money you don't spend, and that that can also be really motivating. That's
Angie Fitzpatrick (41:06)
So that's kind
of a God. Rachel, my favorite thing to do when I'm at the store is to like take things out of my shopping cart and then tell myself, I just saved like a hundred dollars. I'm amazing.
Rachel Duncan (41:18)
I'm making money over here.
Angie Fitzpatrick (41:20)
oh
right. Now I'm gonna go to Starbucks and celebrate. Just kidding.
Rachel Duncan (41:25)
Exactly. I mean that that is the thing. It's interesting. It's like, okay, what will you do? I don't know if she asks this, but I would ask this as your friendly neighborhood financial therapist. Let's say you do 30 days of this and you have more money in your account at the end. What will that be like for you? Right? Is is there gonna be part of you that is then gonna itch to spend it? It's another looking ahead thing, right? Is there maybe a bucket I can put that in? Is there something
That's a l m midterm goal or longer term goal for that to go into. I would, you know, encourage all of us, if you ha you know, likely you're gonna have a little more money on hand, right? And think now, maybe like 50 goes to debt, 50 goes to emergency fund, or, you know, 10% fund money. You know, I I would just encourage you all to think a little ahead about what you'll do with having some more money because it could stimulate that shopping muscle again. Yeah, just depending.
But it can feel great. Yeah. So she's got nice, like at the end of each week, really nice reflection prompts. You know, did last week go smoothly or not? Right. Just like some reflection. It's okay. Are there days or action items that were more difficult, more successful for you? You know, what do you think you would hang on to? What have you learned about yourself? I mean, these are like gorgeous questions. That's not, you know, we're not like Dave Ramseying ourselves into like total guilt. I just got a whole chapter on on clothes, which I'm excited about.
'Cause really I'm super into not buying clothes. I I think there's a couple of members in the club who have committed to not buying new clothing. That in itself is a huge issue. I don't know if she says this, but did you know, Angie, that textiles is the number two polluter on this planet?
Angie Fitzpatrick (43:07)
Yes,
I do. And yeah, it's very and there's so much plastic in our clothing, which is part of the pollution. But yeah, it's oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan (43:19)
I want to talk about repairs real quick. Cause the one thing that's super hard is a lot of the things we buy, especially things that were made in the last 10 years, were made to not be repairable. And so we've really got an uphill battle with that. And that on top of kind of lost the lost art of repairs, you know, like we don't really know how to repair sewing skills, electronic skills, and and stuff like that. So I just want to say, like, it's it can be difficult, but
A, it's a great still opportunity to get to know that, you know, retired neighbor with a tool shed who's super handy, right? I feel like there's like some super handy person in every community. Our library also has a kind of a maker space and or there's sewing machines, there's tools, and they'll teach you how to use it. And that's very cool. I know in Denver there's a tool library.
Where can go and rent tools and they have classes and stuff like that. I'm a real geek about repairing things. I just I think it feels so good. And just yesterday, my husband, everyone, repaired our toaster. And it was the whole thing to Yeah, 'cause he's got some soldering skills and kinda knows some basic stuff a little with electronics. Granted, so now it will only toast and there's no air fryer option. But that's fine. That's better than no toast.
But it felt so good. It took time though. And that's also like not realistic for everyone, right? So like another thing, let's not ha carry a bunch of guilt about it. But if there's an aspect if you wanna learn something about repairs, I think it's incredibly empowering.
Angie Fitzpatrick (44:48)
Yes. Well and I'm gonna say sometimes the repair is simpler than you think. So last week I was baking bread. I like to bake sourdough. I opened the oven door and the handle came off. And I was like, Well, great, that's it. Right before the holidays. Now we gotta buy a new oven, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So my husband, who also is a tinkerer, took a look at it and he's like, It's a bolt. It just needs a bolt, Angie. You can put away the Home Depot love list of ovens, right?
And okay, so to be fair, I was glad that we just saved $800 or $1,000. But also I was a little bit I was a little bit bummed. Like, I actually do want to replace this old stove that came with the house. So now, okay, so then that's an invitation for me to think about that, right? Like, what is it that I'm looking for? Is this actually something I need? Would this be a worthwhile purchase? How could I save up for it? Right. So part of what I
think I've really gained through Money Healing Club. I just keep making plugs for the club
Rachel Duncan (45:51)
It's actually great. No, you can keep doing it.
Angie Fitzpatrick (45:55)
But I really do feel like I'm just overall being a lot more thoughtful about how I'm using my money. And my mantra this season has been, well, I'm protecting my treasure, I'm protecting my money. Um and really, yeah, just being more thoughtful and intentional. And it has felt so good in general. So yeah, thanks, Rachel.
Rachel Duncan (46:17)
Thank you for sharing the oh my god anytime. I feel like every every new book I read or conversation with a client, it brings me a step closer to myself. About like, yeah, this is what this is really about, you know. So yeah. Ugh. And if you know, if anyone has not experienced the feeling of walking out of a store empty handed, it's a rush. It can feel uncomfortable and it's incredibly empowering. Like this is my money and I have a choice here. And this is actually all about consent.
Do you consent to this purchase or not? You know? I feel really embodied to be in there. And then when you do make that conscious choice to buy something or however you're gonna go about it, we want it to feel pr as aligned as possible. And it just does so much. Yeah, ripple effect, mental health, finances, environment, all of it. And I think it can really be community building. She talks about community a lot and you're not in this alone. So yeah, open invitation. Check out club offerings. And if you want to link arms with other folks who are really
looking at the emotional sign of spending, we we got you covered. Well, thank you so much, Angie, for bringing the inside of the club to the outside on the pod. And I think overall I'm recommending this book. I feel like we're giving it two thumbs up.
Angie Fitzpatrick (47:31)
Well yeah, totally. I'm already recommending it. I've got I know somebody who's been door dashing recently because their impulse spending got out of control. And I was like, Can I invite you to just think about your impulse shopping? Read this book. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan (47:44)
Yes, I actually asked a friend who has kids older than me if she would consider setting aside clothes for my kids. And not only that, I said, because I'm reading no new things. And she was like, that's so cool. Absolutely. That's really aligned with me. And now that friendship it has like another connection. And and I let her know about the book. Share if you're reading it, like don't have the cover on, man. I mean, like leave the cover out. Like let people know that you're reading it. And and I really I think we can start something here. Yeah.
Yeah.
Angie Fitzpatrick (48:19)
It's always a pleasure. Right. Take care. Bye.
Rachel Duncan (48:23)
Bye.
Rachel Duncan (48:28)
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