S3 E5: 🌀 Money and the Enneagram with Khara Croswaite Brindle
This podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute mental health, financial, tax, or legal advice.
EPISODE SUMMARY
The Enneagram is having a moment, but most of the conversation stops at quizzes and cute type labels. On this episode of The Money Healing Club podcast, Rachel talks with Khara Croswaite Brindle, certified financial therapist and co-author of the Amazon number one bestseller Your Enneagram and Money, about why the Enneagram is less a personality test and more a framework for how you relate to people, yourself, and to money.
Together they walk all nine types and the money edge that comes with each, from noble poverty in the helpers to the five's fear of being depleted to the nine who cannot say what they are saving for. Rachel and Khara both name their own types on air.
💬 "A lot of people are worried about being put in a box, but the language we hear often is, hey, it's telling you what box you're already in." — Khara
Key Takeaways:
The Enneagram is a relational framework, not a box. It names the logic behind why you do what you do, including the parts you like least.
Enneagram assessments run about 66% accurate. When your real type lands, it tends to feel like a gut punch, not a shrug.
Every type has a money edge. Ones get rigid, twos slide into noble poverty and financial enabling, threes chase dollars, fours swing between craving and rejecting money, fives hoard against depletion, sixes freeze in worst case forecasting, sevens skip the boring stuff, eights refuse to hand over control, and nines lose track of what they even want.
Being "good with money" on paper is not the same as being well. Fives and sixes often look successful and still live in scarcity.
There is no type you are supposed to be. The work is curiosity and balance, not a personality overhaul.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN
02:53 | Why the Enneagram, and Why It Is Not Just a Personality Test: A relational framework for how you connect with people, with yourself, and with money.
08:12 | How Do You Actually Find Your Type?: Why free quizzes run about 66% accurate, what a typing interview is, and what a counter type means.
11:17 | Walking the Nine Types and Their Money Edges: Ones through nines, the core belief driving each, and the money habits that follow.
14:17 | Noble Poverty, Financial Enabling, and Rachel Outs Herself: The helper's growth edge, and why putting your own mask on first keeps proving true.
47:25 | Inside a Typing Interview: What Khara asks, what she watches for, and why people leave feeling seen.
About Khara Croswaite Brindle: Khara is a certified financial therapist and licensed professional counselor in Colorado, director of training at the Financial Therapy Clinical Institute, and co-author of Your Enneagram and Money with Hannah DeGroot. She is also Rachel's former supervisor.
🔗 Resources mentioned
💌 Connect with Khara Croswaite Brindle
🎙️ Have a money story or question?
Click on the big orange button on our site right from your phone or browser and let me know: what is your type, and which money edge hit a little too close to home? https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
💝 Support the Podcast
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🎧 Your next listen:
Khara mentions the Dear Money Letter as homework for fours. Rachel takes that exercise further in Write a Letter to Your Money And Let It Write Back
🎙️We're a proud member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective where creators like me are uplifting diverse voices and driving meaningful change.
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Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (00:00)
We're going right there. No small talk. These are no
small talk people.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (00:03)
Yeah. I remember
that about interviewing one where she like, my God, please don't ask me about the weather. Like just jump into it.
Rachel Duncan (00:09)
you
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (00:12)
Welcome to the Money Healing Club Podcast. I'm Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist. And you've come to the softest place to land in the world of money and personal finance. I'm so glad you're here.
Before we get started, this podcast is for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for mental health, tax, legal, or financial advice.
Today on the pod, I'm so excited to introduce you all, if you don't already know her, to Khara Croswaite Brindle
Khara is also a certified financial therapist, and she's a licensed professional counselor here in Colorado, as well as my former supervisor. And she cares all about mental health therapists and financial therapists and helping them develop secondary income streams to protect against burnout. Yes. As a mental health leader, Khara offers consultation, financial therapy, and her online momentum and money financial therapy group for professionals nationally.
As a financial therapy supervisor, Khara offers community and consultation for financial therapists, which I am a part of.
As well as all sorts of trainings and supervision. Khara is proud to be the director of training at the Financial Therapy Clinical Institute, helping to fill the gaps in early career financial therapist education, including an online externship, which I've also done. I've done all of her stuff. She's the best.
Khara is also the co-author of the Amazon number one bestseller, Your Enneagram and Money, Transforming Enneagram Edges into Financial Freedom. It's so great. We talk about this book throughout, and I will link to it in the show notes.
If you're into understanding yourself on a deeper level, I think you're really going to love this talk with Khara She and I talk about an overview of what the Enneagram is. We walk through the nine types and we also share what our personal types So if you know anything about the Enneagram, take a beat, take a guess at what my type is and see if you're right when you listen.
Khara shares with us a little overview of each type and what each type's money, preferences, habits, shadow sides are. And, you know, listen through all of them and just notice like a little gut check on any of these. And also notice when it's like, that's not me at all, or wow, that's you know, my partner or my brother. Take a note of all of that. It's really interesting stuff.
We also talk about Amy Poehler and how she is shedding so much light on the Enneagram on her podcast Good Hang. I feel like I've learned a lot about the Enneagram from just her mentioning it there. It's very eight of her. So let's talk about what we don't usually say about the Enneagram and money with the wonderful Khara Croswaite Brindle
Rachel Duncan (02:45)
you
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (02:50)
Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. Khara thank you for being here. So, Khara why the enneagram? Like, tell us about it.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (02:53)
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, so for listeners who aren't familiar with the Enneagram, it's described as a personality test, but I actually see it as a relational framework, right? Of like how do we connect with other people? How do we connect with self? So I think the Enneagram's been around for quite a while, came to the US in the 1960s, but it's been around way before that. And has really gained popularity, I'd say, in the last 15 years, where people are seeing it in the workplace as like how do work well with people in groups? I've seen it on dating apps, I've seen it in job posts in general, of like here's who we're looking for.
for but also I think a lot of people are doing this more on like a self-of self-discovery lens that way. And so because it's a relational framework, I love talking about it as how we relate to people, but also how we relate to money, which I know we're going talk about here. So so excited.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (03:44)
I love that. Yeah. And I think it often so often it's a this the bit I've learned about enneagram through you and sort of picking up on the media and stuff, it's like it's such a positive framework. It's such a strengths-based framework. And I really, really appreciate that aspect.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (04:01)
Yeah, yeah. And I would say with that, like a lot of people they're worried about being put in a box, but I feel like the the language we hear often is, hey, it's telling you what box you're already in. And so because it's relational, it's empathy, right? Of like, okay, if I'm not your same personality structure, I can still have empathy for how you show up in the world. And it gives language for why we do what we do. So of course all therapists nerd out over this because it's like, this is right there along with psychology, just more language for that. So hopefully listeners like that.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (04:28)
And it kind of normalizes, you're struggling with this. Well, here's the logic. Here's here's a possible line of logic. And and I am amazed how how comprehensive it it can be. And we'll we'll get into the different types, but it's been it's been a real joy for me to learn and understand that. So yeah, so tell me more about how this is relating to money or how specifically you're bringing this into financial therapy.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (04:51)
Yeah, so the the origin story is I have loved the Enneagram for almost two decades now and was having a conversation as a financial therapist of like, huh, I feel like there's something here between money and Enneagram. And so I wrote a blog and people literally liked that. They're like, this makes so much sense. And I imagine, you know, it was like hypothesis. I wasn't quite sure if this was true or not. So then I went to a full Enneagram trained professional and said, Hey, can you like check this out with me, make sure I got it right? And so that became my my co author, Hannah DeGroot. And so she
Came in and was yep, let's talk subtypes, let's nerd out over wings, all the things. There's the book that Rachel just put on screen. and that was really helpful because that actually spurred me to go get fully certified in Enneagram. So at the time of this recording, I have been certified for I think five months now. and that was really helpful, and as you said, very comprehensive and deep dive. So I think I got more out of that certification after writing the book. So interesting order there. but for a lot of people, it's just saying curious about what these types mean. And although you see
At strengths based, oftentimes when we hit our type, there's a lot of like reaction and activation that shows up of like, this is like my shadow side, or this is stuff I wouldn't want people to know. And so I like to normalize that from the get go in case people are like, I don't like what you're saying about these types as we give an overview, but maybe there's something here that we need to pay attention to. So naturally, because we have a relationship with money, we want to talk about it from like saving, spending, investing, and giving. and so that just started to become the book that we wrote, which is Your Enneagram and
Money and conversations have been really interesting from there.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (06:24)
It's a great book, and I've invited you into my membership to talk through it, and it sparked so many conversations. And yeah, you know, and and maybe maybe the language is more it is normalizing rather than necessarily strengths-based. There's certainly strengths in there, but it's sort of what I have found is like, well, maybe there's like there's a darn good logic to you doing what you do, even the things that you really struggle with or the things that you don't like so much about yourself. Like we could actually look at this as
Is how all these pieces fit together for you specifically. And I I think that I know for me, it's been like, I really thought that was just a me thing. Like, there's some two-ness coming through in this. And that actually could explain it. And that I'm finding that really an interesting thing to work with. So, okay, could we, for those of us who are maybe a little newer to the Enagram, there are nine types, and maybe we can kind of bullet point through, we'll probably go through them a couple times about like the major themes, right? The passions and the ways we describe.
the nine types and maybe within there if you want to make a little note about like how this can show up with money, maybe an example for each type. Could we do that? Okay. Okay. And hi everyone. I we're following along on the on your Enagram and Money book, Transforming Enneagram Edges into Financial Freedom by Khara Croswaite Brindle and Hannah DeGroot. So pick up the book, by the way. I'll I'll put a link to it in the show notes. It's great.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (07:29)
we can do our best, yeah. Off the cup.
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, the book itself is very digestible and not meant to be like this big beefy thing. People get through it pretty quickly. and so even for folks who pick up the book, we're gonna go through all nine types, but you might just, you know, go to the page or chapter that's about your type if you already know it. And for other folks they're gonna start with like some other self discovery assessments or typing interview or something like that. so we're gonna s yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (07:50)
It is. Yeah, look, it's not that big.
maybe actually w before we get
into the list, could you share the ways someone can find out their type?
Khara Croswaite Brindle (08:12)
Yeah, I love this question. so there are a lot of assessments out there, free ones and paid. And what we'd like to tell people now that I'm in that certification group of humans is that they're about 66% accurate. So oftentimes people might take an assessment or a test or a free quiz and go, huh, there's some value here, but maybe it doesn't like hit. Like when it really hits, it like it feels like a gut punch. A lot of people feel tears or shame or like, ooh, activation in the stomach. And so some people start there with maybe a free assessment. I personally like ENEA app. It's one of our colleagues here in Colorado who made that one.
there's a free version and a paid version. But I like the fact that he has accessibility there of it being an app. There's also varying costs of like $20 for a test to like $45 or $65, depending on how robust and in detail you want it to be. And then because I pursued certification, my whole goal with certification was to do Enneagram typing interviews, which basically is a 60 to 90 minute, depending on the provider, interview where I ask questions that are related to each.
The nine types we work our way around the wheel, if you will. I know it's not truly a wheel, but in my head it's still round. and we you know get curious about that. We start to like order of elimination, figure out what's working and what isn't. And so my goal as a typing person isn't supposed to be this is your type 100%, this is it. But we narrow things down from nine types to maybe your top three. sometimes it's glaringly obvious though that they're like one type. It's like, yep, you're checking all the boxes, but oftentimes the folks who take an assessment or a quiz and nope, this doesn't.
resonate, they have to come into a typing interview of their own volition to really get answers because they might be what we call a counter type, which means they don't look like the typical type structure for their particular Enneagram type. So those folks have options, especially if you've taken a quiz and you're like, nah, didn't do anything for me. You might be a counter type.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (09:58)
I think for me I did do one of the twenty dollar ones and I didn't like the answer. And it actually took some conversations with you and really sitting with it 'cause I I in my head it kind of identified with a different type. But the and at first I was like, I don't know if that's right. And they are kind of their wings or not wings, but they're they're they are two connected types. But the more I got into it, I was like, no, that's the one. But my first thing, it was sort of like I didn't
Khara Croswaite Brindle (10:02)
Yeah. You're like, no, thank you.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (10:22)
the typing assessment doesn't give you then the follow up conversations about it, especially if you don't like your answer.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (10:28)
Yeah. And then getting curious about why don't we like the answer? Is it like 'cause we felt alignment with some other type, or I think people aspire to certain types, but they all have their edges, as I call it, right? Of like things they could grow or or improve upon, or health versus stress response. But yeah, like for folks who are like, nope, it's not it. I think I love that you named and normalized. What if it's just I felt aligned with a different type and I'm maybe disappointed that I didn't get tested as that type? And so there's more to uncover there, usually.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (10:55)
Right, so let's go through okay, so we've got it is kind of a wheel. I mean, I've seen this, it's on the cover of your book, but this is something that we see a lot in like the Enneagram literature, which is a I'll just describe it for the audio folks. It's a it's a circle and there's nine points around it. And they're kind of connected in somewhat of a star kind of pattern. so okay, so let's let's let's walk through. Tell us about it.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (11:17)
Yeah, so we're just gonna start with one through nine. Again, there's no like order of importance or some people will start in different places based on like head type, heart type, gut type, which is a whole different layer to the Enneagram. but we'll start with the type one. They're often called the perfectionist. And so they'd have some personality structures of rigidity, some black and white thinking. They tend to have a core belief of I wanna do things the right way or be right. And so that does show up behaviorally and in their own thought patterns. Just like there's one way to do things. So understandably with
money as we're talking about this a little layer of that, they're gonna say there's a right way to do money. And they might say it's investing in a particular way or saving it in a particular way. High yield savings versus like under the mattress, whatever that looks like for them. But that rigidity can lead to some growth edges of like they're not staying on top of how money is changing and evolving with our culture. But also it might lead to them not asking for help when it comes to money. Of like, I think I've got this, but what if they're now in what we call sunk cost fallacy of like I've done it this way.
so much invested but it's not working, they're not as likely to pivot as other types.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (12:22)
really good point. Yeah. And that that shadow part of like, well then what if I'm not being perfect with it and that being really probably distressing.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (12:29)
Yeah.
Yeah. And so an invitation for a one that we have in the book is how do you play with money? And they're like, What do you mean play? Like for them, it's like everything is right and everything has to be like stoic and and serious. And so even for therapy with these humans, they tend to need to have a playful aspect. So it might be like playful homework of I like want you to play. And you'll see the quizzical look on their face andor panic of like, I don't what you're saying. But once they actually build that muscle, it becomes easier for them to feel more well balanced, not so rigid, a little bit more healthy as a one.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (13:00)
Can you give an example of what a play assignment would be?
Khara Croswaite Brindle (13:03)
Yeah, I mean, I usually don't assign them to clients because I want them to like come up with something. But I think an example would be like, I want you to play with your partner in the sense of like, I want you to like tell jokes to each other, read out dad jokes, take a walk, do something childlike, like play a board game. And I know not all board games are childlike, so please listeners, don't like roast me for that. But like think Candy Land. Let's go like low, low heart, you know, like low challenge. Candyland or like some childhood game that brings back nostalgia. And so for them, if I leave it
open-ended, they usually come up with something, but it's just a little bit harder for them to grasp at first. But play could be, I want to go back and do something from childhood. I want to do something that makes me have a belly laugh. Like these are folks that look really serious oftentimes. And even how they show up in their face can be very serious. So when you see them open up and play, they're very much more charismatic and enjoyable to be around versus the word intimidation shows up for them a lot when they're in their most stoic, most serious.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (14:01)
god, do they present
as sort of intimidating? That's really interesting. Yeah. Okay. All right. So that's our that's our ones. And you know, just like for the listeners, just sort of notice, right, what comes up for you, maybe people in your life. We're not typing anyone here. We're just giving sort of like an overview and then a little bit of how that shows up with money. All right. Round the circle.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (14:17)
That's right. That's right.
All right, going to our twos, often called the helper. So they have a core belief of like, I need to be needed. And so that can lead to obviously being very useful or in helpful professions. So I think of caregiver roles, often a lot of therapists, nurses, doctors, potentially, nonprofit workers. This is also the group that's most likely to experience noble poverty, which is something I've talked about with you on record and off recording. So noble poverty is putting ourselves in financial distress to serve others.
And that usually has a a gut punch for some of these too. So like, yeah, I'm like helping and donating and, you know, giving money to folks and causes because that feels important to them. their growth edge though is manipulation. So this need to be needed, they might create circumstances where they are relied on because like that makes them feel worthy. And so with money, they're more likely to struggle with financial enabling and that noble poverty I mentioned. So financial enabling is like I'm gonna continue to give money when people ask for it, but then there's gonna be an impact at home.
of like maybe I don't have as much saved as I want to. Maybe I haven't thought about retirement because the money's not there. It's being gifted or donated or given to other folks.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (15:28)
And I'll out myself, y'all. So I I am a two.
And that it has been, it's such a shadow side and a growth edge. And yes, here I am in a helping profession. And I always have in some ways been in a helping role in different different industries, even and and with my family. And and it's also the thing that I struggle with the most. And I I do think it's my relationship with income, is the hardest. And it's getting better, it's getting better all the time, folks. And I even like unpacked it here in a recent episode.
really talking about like my journaling with money. And yeah, so this this one really resonates with me and it and it's difficult. And I do see it out there too, because there's this sort of martyrdom. there's in in and I think the language of like passion, it's like, well how could I not? How could I hold on to money when there's so much need in the world? Or, you know, doing something that is self-serving, you know, would be r is really difficult. when there's like
quote, so much so much need in the world and finding so much worth in being a helper.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (16:29)
That's right.
That's right. And so for these folks, homework might look like unpacking that noble poverty, looking at what balance would look like of how do I give and also save money for my own goals. So sometimes it's slowing down at two and saying, What's your goal for yourself? And they're like, What do you mean? Like I'm always focused on others. So like they're gonna panic a little bit, just like our ones have a panic response to their homework. but you know, they're very much like heartfelt. And so like as long as the homework can feel heartfelt, values aligned, all of that's gonna help them show up and actually do it. so for some folks it might be re
naming accounts, like what are we saving for that feels heartfelt.
so for twos, an invitation might be renaming their accounts, which might then make it feel more values aligned or heartfelt of like it's not just savings, which I have a bone to pick with anyone who's like, let's just say it's savings, because that has no motivation behind it. But for twos, it might be like, well, what is it that I can do with this money? Is it now donating to a cause? They might literally spell that out on a savings account. Is it I want to take a life-changing trip somewhere with my family? So we really want them to play with that reframing structure or or opportunity.
To say what would this look like, and would it feel more motivating versus, I feel like this is out of balance and everything is going to one person or one cause.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (17:42)
That hits
Khara Croswaite Brindle (17:43)
Yeah, you're like,
what can we try? So I'm sure you've tried things yourself as a two. but yeah, there's a lot there.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (17:51)
Yeah, there's you know, I mean the really tired cliche, but it's true is to put on your own mask first and that that's gonna help others and I have sort of learned the hard way again and again that that is true.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (18:04)
So moving to our threes, which I'll out myself as a three, because I always feel like I should before I like name all the things that are not great about threes, because it's my own work. but threes are often called the achiever. And so they look really successful on paper. And that might be because the core belief is I want to look successful. So even if it's not actually true, there's this outward facing, I want to look a certain way and have myself feel worthy because of that. so these folks tend to have like a corporate energy of like really long resume.
really impressive, but their growth edge is workaholism. And so that might then lead to poor relationships, things kind of falling apart. They might have a health crisis. Check, check, check. For all listeners, these are all things I've had happen. As a three that's really worked hard to not look like a unhealthy three.
So with the money part of it, that workaholicism means we might chase dollars. So new opportunities, bright, shiny object might show up. but the workaholism of like I just put work first before everything else, and that's gonna have its own consequences for our threes. And so homework for them might be around this mantra that's making me smirk even as I say this of like your self-worth is not your net worth. And they go, What? Because like we're like chasing a milestone of a have this much in your account or have this much in retirement. and so for them, there is a level of playfulness, but also
Also, we're still looking for balance. And so for them, I actually have a tool in the book that's called fill your bucket funds. Of like, okay, once all the like priorities are met, what are we doing with any extra if we have extra money in a month? And how do we make it more like again, values aligned or heartfelt for those threes? Because self-deceit is a big part of us. Like, everything's fine. I think the dog with the fire around them meme, everything's fine. It's like not fine. So yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (19:49)
And I and I love this also is like hearing you describe these and knowing that you are three, also like, well, that's not me at all. And that that's such good information too. Like, that's really interesting. That's not how I am at all. Or I have wanted to be that way, but actually that's not quite for me. So it's it's also a a ta a task of like what hits and and the information that comes when it doesn't.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (20:08)
Yeah, I love that.
And we live in a culture. I've only seen this in one book so far, but it makes my heart happy for I don't know, I need to figure out why it makes my heart so happy. But they're like, here are the cultures of like different nations and how they might show up as type and the US is a three. Like, I mean, as a culture, we are totally a three hustle culture.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (20:24)
Right. And it's the show. It's look
how long my resume is. It's yeah. Yeah.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (20:28)
Yes. Yeah. And
so like I think that also normalizes we're seeing an uptick in women who type S3s. So we like want the best of all worlds. We want to be good moms and good business owners and good wives or whatever. Do it all. And so we're like collapsing and burnout and some other stuff there. but some of our other countries as we go around the wheel, I'll kind of call some of them out because like this is not my philosophy or theory, but like I was I was amused by them saying, This country is this, this country is that.
And so I love that you're like, okay, maybe we also have to stay curious. What is not us? And maybe there's relief there of like, that doesn't sound great. But as we started this conversation, there is not one type we all aspire to be, although they all have like fun parts and we're talking mostly about the edges because that's where I think self-discovery comes in. It's not, hey, pat on the back, it's going well. It's what can we what can we improve?
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (21:18)
Totally. And and the element
of like certain of these certain qualities, certain personality qualities are enhanced or encouraged in certain cultures. So we're gonna see that possibly more as like when we do it look at it on a macro level.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (21:29)
That's right. Very much so. So we have a good sense of your type, my type. Let's move to fours as the next one. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (21:35)
do we even bother? Just kidding. Yeah. They're all important.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (21:39)
They're all important.
So fours are often called the individualist. And so that is showing up as I want to be unique. I want to be seen as other but different. but sometimes that actually bites them in the butt behind because now they feel othered in the wrong way of like no one understands me, no one gets me. They tend to be very creative artists, musicians, right? So we have a lot of like people in those industries that are typing as fours. cause that core belief is I wanna be unique, and that might show up in whatever they build or create.
When comes to money, for us were actually the hardest to pin down when it came to interviewing for our book, but also saying, like, here's the theory, are we on track? Because they have a very polarizing op experience. They either are like, yes, money brings unique things to my life, like they're like the fun Etsy shopper supporters. they're like, I want the uniquely crafted jewelry, clothing item that would make my life better.
But on the other hand, they might also reject capitalism, where like I want nothing to do with money, I don't want to think about money, I shun money. And so those two experiences feel very opposite for me of like one is like I'm cultivating something that requires money, and the other is I reject money in all forms. And so for listeners, you might relate to either of those options, but just know that this is the most diverse camp is the type four.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (22:54)
And I have a hunch actually, I think a lot of my audience falls into this camp a lot.
Of this sort of real internal struggle, this internal battle of meeting needs and personally and then the societal view of it and yeah, the rejecting capitalism and that feeling just like a really difficult thing to resolve. And it is, it is really difficult. Like and and and there is no clear answer. And and I also think that's these these big thinkers, big feelers, then yes, it I think it makes sense to
that they express themselves creatively quite a bit to speak to the yeah, the kind of the dark mystery that's going on there. Which I love. I love going there too. See this is I wanted to be a four, but I'm not everyone.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (23:37)
Like I want it to be. Which I think when we talked about this Yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (23:38)
I love fours, but I'm not one, but I love them.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (23:41)
We talked
about this off recording I was like, how interesting 'cause like fours definitely still have like that shadow of people going, I don't know if I like some parts of the four, all of them have their shadows, right? As we continue to reiterate. But for fours, they often feel so other that they don't feel connected to their community. they do make really good therapists for anyone who's a therapist listening because they are willing to go deep and they go deep quickly. They fall in love hard and fast, but they also are willing to hold space for some of the deepest, darkest thoughts and experiences the human has.
So they're really good trauma therapists is what I've noticed in my community.
So their homework, if we're thinking about homework money related, their homework often looks like, How do I actually get neutral with my money? 'cause if they have these polarizing, you know, like tug of war inside of them, how do they actually like slow that down and say, Where is money helpful? And yes, where am I holding that it's harmful in my life or in the life of society and culture? but for them it's like slowing things down, getting comfortable with all the emotions that relate to money. And so they do really well with Dear Money Letter, which is actually something you and I've
A lot about because you've taken that another step further with art. but Jen Sincero was one of the people I first saw talk about the dear money letter in her book, You Are a Badass at Making Money And I said, great! I love that we're writing a letter that says, No money, you're hurting me, I don't like you, get out. But then it was unfinished because, like, the reality is money is still part of our life. And so, as a financial therapist, I'm like, the second layer of this is money's response to you in a letter. And so, what would it be like for money to give a healthy response of like, I am so sorry I hurt you.
Or I want to do better, I was trying to protect you, and watch people soften to that and force respond well to that heartfelt emotional exercise.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (25:22)
Which actually I think that explains why I think that that particular exercise that I do in almost all of my groups, I even I ran a group where the first ten minutes of every week we were writing just to that second part, dear money, what would you have me know today? And just receiving that, you know, it's it's emotional, it's metaphorical, it's very deep. And so often money shows up in that way as having great mental health, as being like, I only want for your safety and
very forgiving and also kind of no nonsense. Like there's this interesting character that comes out quite a bit. Not always, but like quite a bit with money. And I think for this type that really makes sense. Like I'm not alone in this because I was feeling really alone. And whoa, money was kind of there all along. Maybe I'm not al I was alone in this. And I I think that's why that's so profound.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (26:10)
Yeah, very powerful. And so obviously any exercise we're talking about is an invitation for listeners to try on even if it's not their type or aligned with their type. But I think we're talking most like who are most open to receiving this particular exercise, even if it's like, this is still up against my comfort zone and for four. So like heck yeah, I can go sit in all the emotions all day every day. Yeah. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (26:30)
We're going right there. No small talk. These are no
small talk people.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (26:34)
Yeah. I remember
that about interviewing one where she like, my God, please don't ask me about the weather. Like just jump into it. And then like they would apologize 'cause they've been learned s they've been taught socially, like, slow it down and ask how people are. And I like, You don't have to do that with me. Like I understand that that is like really against the grain for you. So just jump right in. I'm with you.
Those are our fours. in
contrast, even though they're right next to each other are fives, and it's really interesting to see how different they show up because I've seen people pair up four and a five. And I'm like, wow, that's such an interesting, intimate partner pair.
yeah. Our fives are often called the investigator. And so they are all about competence. They want us to be seen as competent, but more importantly, they want to feel competent, as in yes, I am competent on whatever the thing is that I am good at. and so they like they have a quest for knowledge. They want to know everything there is to know about a particular topic. sometimes they show up with our like neurodiverse population of like
hyper focus or special interests might be language that overlaps between a t this type and neurodiversity. but they're also home bodies. And so they don't like a lot of out there in the spotlight networking, like that would be their idea of hell, actually. so their biggest growth edge with money is they're worried about being depleted. And that's not just specific to money. It's depleted in energy, depleted in finance, depleted in resources, money being one of those resources.
And so oftentimes they are very frugal with their money. They're holding on to it. They don't like to spend it. They get angry or irritated when they have to spend it, even if it's to replace something that's broken. And so as you can imagine, homework's gonna look a little different for them. But yeah, four to five, whoo, such contrast. Because fives are like, nope, I'm literally a floating head. Everything I think and do is up here. I don't feel my body at all. And they don't talk the language of emotions. So when you pair these two people together.
There's obvious friction 'cause one person's like, Let's go deep. Now there's like, What are you talking about? I'm in my head. I cannot do that. I refuse. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (28:29)
Although they both seem individualist and against the grain. And maybe that's
maybe there's an aspect of that. I'm I'm smiling because I think I know a five very well. So I can you know, and also hey, that person is giving the grounding that I know that I need. And there could be a bit of that in both ways, that like there's, you know, a bit of an opposite coming together
Khara Croswaite Brindle (28:50)
Very much so. Beautifully
said. Yeah, where one's like helping the other have emotional intelligence and the other's grounding someone who's very much in their emotions quite a bit. I like that idea.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (28:59)
We feel
you fives and probably like ones might be hard to ask for help. That's my guess.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (29:07)
Yeah, yeah. So they have some similarities, a little bit more like that stoic, very professional, tend to be attracted to professions that are very like left brain logic. so engineers, computer scientists, those kinds of folks that come into it. but yeah, so like they want to be very knowledgeable. So they're usually pretty good at money. So I usually get the the news channels where I'll ask like what type is the best at saving money, Khara? And I'll be like, Well, they all have their strengths, but like fives are definitely at the top of the list 'cause they're like so worried about it being depleted, they're holding on to it.
quite strongly. so like on paper they look like they have more wealth because that's true, because they're holding it. so their homework, if they had homework, is like sometimes it's just showing them that the numbers reflect they have enough. And so they actually are a good candidate for the net worth exercise, even though I'm not a fan of it in general across other types. Net worth exercise, what are your assets or things you own and what are your liabilities, the things you owe, and then you get a number at the bottom.
And a lot of financial professionals have us do this if we work with them. But fives are like, huh, the numbers show I actually have enough because they usually have a positive net worth. This can be a very activating exercise for other people who are struggling with money. So I want to put that disclaimer here. Yeah. Yeah. But for them, they're like, huh, can they actually like root into the numbers and see that there is truth of I do have enough resources. I do have enough money if that is something they're worried about.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (30:16)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's not always a useful thing. Yeah.
The experience of enoughness.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (30:30)
That's right. Yeah. Us us entrepreneurs they want to put us in a panic. Ask what's enough. But like threes, different conversation. but yeah, five so it feels very anchoring to of like I can I can see the math, the math is mathing. I do have enough, especially if a financial professional, if they truly ask for help, which is another growth edge for them, because they're like, I'm competent. I should know how to do this. but if they truly ask for help or engage those professionals, they can help them see that that is true.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (30:59)
Okay. Anything else about five? Should we go on to six?
Khara Croswaite Brindle (31:02)
Yeah,
sixes. I'm married to a six, so I always smile and chuckle at this one because that's just how I show up. sixes are often called the anxious loyalist. or loyalist if you take out the word anxious, but they show up in anxiety a lot. So that's how they function. So they don't think the glass is half full or half empty. They say the glass is gonna break is kind of their running joke.
but they make really good folks that like are in quality assurance, auditing, because they're always forecasting and looking ahead. So they're look they're the person you want in a startup when you're like trying to launch a new product or a new service. Cause they're gonna be like, all right, four months from now, here's the horrible thing that could happen. so their superpower is looking ahead and forecasting what's the horrible thing so that we can avoid it. which is why they're in these kind of analytical roles as well. And so when it comes to money, they might be really good at like looking to the future, but they're not very much in the
present and that makes it hard for them to make financial decisions that are quick. So if you think about there's a limited time offer on this car lease, they're gonna want more time. They're never gonna be pushed. They're not gonna be rushed. And so as a three married to a six, you can imagine the friction that comes up with threes where like, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's do this. And then a six is like, I need more time. Like I want to look at all the options. What's the best deal? They're gonna try and optimize.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (32:15)
And really look into that future,
really feel into that future state. That's interesting.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (32:19)
Yeah.
What's gonna what what's the depreciation rate for this vehicle if we're gonna buy this car? Like that's that's where they're at. That's how they operate in the world. And so for them, homework is gonna be like, where is the like small spend joy? Where can we not break the bank but bring some joy to your life? Because anxiety is driving a lot of your money decisions. And so for them it might be something as simple as Lego, coffee at their favorite coffee shop.
buying gifts for other people if that brings joy to them as just three examples. could be a favorite chocolate, whatever that looks like, That's right. That's right. And so for them that like balances out some of the anxiety of like, I can still have a good quality of life in this moment, even as I'm living for the future or planning for the future.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (32:48)
Yeah, but that real present yeah, present moment focus that money can bring.
I feel like I I could take a little scoop of six. Like I could use a little more of that. I'm so in the moment. And looking back, I don't do I I do think that's a growth edge for me. I don't tend to look to the future. So it's like I also feel like it's like a bunch of ice cream flavors. Like I do kind of want a little scoop of that. I do I can I like that too. Even though I can see how hard it is, you know, how how the struggle and the pain of that type of focus can also that's real too, but then I could take a little doll up.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (33:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so for those of us who are a little bit more, I'm gonna say impulsive for myself, or just like fast in decisions, they also can be very grounding, like that five. Five or six, you're paired with them financially. They're gonna ground you, anchor you, they're gonna look at what are the worst things that could happen. They're also gonna see like what's the best thing that could happen. but they live in worst case scenario. So that's like their superpower, even though it's obviously somewhat painful too or anxiety provoking to live that way. they're gonna be the one who's prepared for if the lights go out, they have all the batteries, right? They're the one who's
like one step away from the Doom bunker or whatever, right? So like that's kind of that human if that's helpful for listeners.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (34:12)
Yeah, yeah. I think we're all going through our
mental Rolodex and
Khara Croswaite Brindle (34:16)
Yep, yep. Like who do I know who sounds like this? so that's
our sixes. So homework, small spend, joy for them to help that feel a little bit more balanced. Cause that's all what financial therapy is about. I'm sure you've talked a lot about that here, Rachel, on your podcast of like what's the best of all worlds? We're not just saving, we're not just spending, and we're not just tackling debt. We're trying to do all the things at once in a very intentional way. And so balance is a word I keep saying a lot because it's true
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (34:40)
And I think especially
with these two types together is, you know, I think the mainstream kind of says, well, that's what being good with money looks like. And while of course there are strengths there, it has its own struggle and pain that is also important to normalize, and that there is no one right way to be with money. and that there's sort of a double whammy, I think, for folks in these types where that look of being good with money, and I for threes too, is how you described it.
or in and in practical terms, you know, maybe have more money, quite literally, but that it's it it doesn't mean that they don't deserve help or, you know, can't find some other balance. So I think it's wonderful to normalize that.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (35:20)
Yeah, yeah. And so fives and sixes, where they are similar is they both live in their heads, right? That's kind of a theme we're hearing is like they're a head type. and so where core belief of five was I wanna be seen as competent and I wanna feel competent. A six is I wanna be a part of a community. I wanna feel like I'm part of something. And so sixes, they're hot and cold of like if they have a really strong leader, they're all with you forever. But if you spite them or you make a really poor choice, they are like not quick to forgive. They will remember that forever. And so it's just interesting how
on paper they might start to sound like they're the same but their core motivations are very different which is something you had mentioned earlier of like what is the passion what's keeping them going all of this language is more about like why do they show up the way they do even if the behaviors on the surface look similar both fives and sixes are trying to save money and have enough but they don't feel like they have enough the core motivation is very different for those two types.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (36:10)
I think you said in the book like while there's nine types, in a lot of ways there's twenty seven because there's sort of three aspects of each
Khara Croswaite Brindle (36:17)
Right. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (36:18)
But we won't get into that, folks. We'll be here all day.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (36:21)
We'll talk about that later. But yeah, subtypes for
listeners. If you're like, I'll take a deep dive, go look for the books on subtypes, because that is where Hannah filled the gap for me. I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about, but how interesting that they show up differently. sevens are our last head type, and so they also are in their head in the sense of how they operate. But sevens are often known as the enthusiast. So they're very fun, very playful. If there was a type people like want, it's probably this because they just sound fun and lighthearted. but as you
Imagine there are also some growth edges there. So for sevens, even though they're charismatic, fun, they're the person you want on a road trip of like, hey, let's just go have an adventure. This is the person you want. And so we all like think of that person who's like spontaneous and exciting, good storyteller oftentimes. but on the flip side, they have a hard time with commitment, and that might be intimate partner, that might be committing to a job or a place to live. When it comes to money, it's hard for them to commit to save for something unless it's fun or short term. like they're really
good
I have one seven on my caseload right now. She's really good at saving for like things that matter to her, but like really bad at budgeting. That's her words, not mine. Really bad at budgeting. She will not do budget because it's not fun. It's not sexy.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (37:32)
Right. The boring but important
stuff is not compelling. Yeah.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (37:34)
Yeah. So
like they'll be really good at like looking to the future if it's fun related, but they're not gonna be like, hooray, sign me up to think about retirement 'cause that's sexy and fun, like rolling my eyes. No, that's not their thing. so they might have some money that they can generate here and now, but they're gonna struggle to like hold on to it for long periods of time if it's not related to their value spend. that's like a growth edge for them. So homework for them, unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know how you look at it, is do they know their numbers? Like do they know what's going in, what's coming out in an any given day?
And so they're actually someone we want to have try on a conscious spending plan, right? When budget's a bad word, but conscious spending plan, where's my money going? That is the tool or homework for them.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (38:16)
I'm I'm thinking about some types, yeah, or some folks who've come across who might be sevens, you know, I don't know, but are like, I I have to become a whole new person, or do I have to get a lobotomy to be good with money? And I wonder like like this doesn't fit who I am. This is not only like a total bummer, but like it just doesn't see I have to have a whole personality overhaul to quote be good with money and you know, look like a five or a six or something like that. And I'm I'm just like remembering some of that language, and that feels kind of just what you're describing is very seven.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (38:45)
Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so sevens I mean, even in the mental health field, like they're the people doing really cool stuff that's not sit down and do talk therapy, right? So like they're kind of easy to clock. again, 'cause they're fun and charismatic and like the person you want to hang out with, but they're gonna struggle with like how do I do the things that feel boring or mundane
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (39:03)
That that friend that plans the the wonderful trip or something is is sort of what I'm seeing.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (39:08)
Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah. So we have a good sense of sevens. eights are our next one. So eight are often called the challenger. And eights are really easy for me to clock energetically because they're usually described as the energizer bunny. So as a three, that's really interesting. Like I get along with eights really well because we both produce a lot. We both create a lot of things. but eights have even more energy than those workaholic threes, which is fascinating to me. And I almost like envy them and or like idolize them, I think. So putting in your podcast. But I have a couple of eights that are like amazing in my life and I love them.
them.
so they're passionate, their core belief is I want to be in control. I want to be in control. So these folks, I've seen some interesting stuff come out around the prevalence of childhood abuse, which might lead to like this control aspect of I want to feel in control, not to be heavy. But like that might be one of the reasons that they are showing up this way. Our Enneagram types are something we're born with, but they get reinforced by life events, right? So nature versus nurture conversation there. Side note.
but for eights that control can then lead to I wanna be in control of the relationship, I want to be in control of parenting, I wanna be in control of our of our finances. And so when it comes to finances, their growth edge is how do I ask for help? Because they don't want to. Whether that's a professional or a partner, they're not asking for help because they want to stay in control. so very similar to a one in the sense that we want them to have some playfulness with money, maybe a small spend joy, kind of like we had with our fives, but really it's what's letting up some of the control gonna look like for them.
And that might be something they have to articulate. Here's one small step I can take to give up some control.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (40:44)
Sounds like a little bit of maybe a trust the process kind of conversation, or like could a slice of the pie be a little like mystery or ambiguity or something like that. And I was sharing with Khara before we recorded that on Amy Poehler's podcast Good Hang she's super enneagram and she's an eight and she has a lot of threes. she clocks threes a lot.
think because people think she's a three because she is so ambitious, but she's she is she does come from this challenging place. So just if you want you want a little shorthand, think Amy Poehler seems like a pretty good poster child for an eight. She started Upright Citizens Brigade. Like she was like she's been a real revolutionary person and is so competent. And you know, that that blend I think really speaks to her. We'll tag her in this, we'll see if she sees it.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (41:30)
And so she's part of that gut type because the gut types, eights is where we start with them, because it's eight, nines, and ones are a gut type. They tend to feel things in the gut, which means that she's gonna express no not not her in particular, but eights in general are gonna express anger outwardly more often. they're not gonna suppress it, they're not gonna tamp it down, they're going to let you know if they're upset because it's part of the passion. so they're really easy to clock in a social situation because they tend to be big energy. Maybe they're talking loud, maybe they're talking with their hands, maybe they feel energetically bigger or taller than they are. Like
I have a five foot three friend who's an eight, but like feels like she's six foot just in how she shows up in the world. probably one of the reasons I love her. And like they're like, you know, they usually are told you're too much. So that's kind of a tell of an eight of like you're too much, you're too loud, you're too blah, blah, blah, blah, insert word. but like when they really do their work, they show up authentically and they find the people who enjoy them. So threes tend to enjoy them just fine. Like we're not intimidated by them. We're actually in awe of them. versus some of the other types would be like, Whoa, like a five might be like, Whoa.
This does a lot. This is a lot to handle.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (42:32)
Yeah, yeah,
that's interesting.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (42:36)
Yeah, so letting go of control is their homework. Of course, this feels a little bit more nebulous on purpose because if you tell an eight how to do something, they're gonna tell you a big F you. So like let's not. Yeah, don't tell them what to do. Angry teenage part there. So like we invite them to say, like, what would be a small step to show that you're giving up some of that control, especially if we can see the benefit of like you want more intimacy, you want more connection in your relationships, you want to feel like you're not financially gatekeeping everybody and everything. Like that might resonate with them as a reason.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (42:46)
Don't tell me what to do.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (43:06)
to try this on.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (43:07)
Gotcha. Yeah, that re back to that relational part.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (43:11)
last but not least are our nines. They're also one of the gut type, but whereas eights are outward anger, nines are suppressing anger. So like they're like, what anger? When you ask them if they have anger. What anger? What are you talking about? they're often called the mediator or peacemaker, depending on which book or research you look at. core belief is I want to keep the peace. And so as you can imagine, that's gonna show up relationally, but also with money. How do I keep the peace? How do I not make waves? Don't wanna rock the boat.
nines are very often struggling with blending. So we want to actually unblend them from people or causes. Like what does what does the person themselves want? What does nine person want versus what does your partner or organization want? so that for them, that's a lot of the work is like how do we actually come up with goals that are your goals, just uniquely you? Because they're blended with all sorts of people, usually a partner more so than anybody else. with money, that means they don't know what they were saving for.
If they're like, honey, what do you want to where do you want to eat? This place. Sounds good. Like they're just gonna go with the flow. Yeah, never, never. so for a lot of it, it's gonna be more of that self-discovery work, peeling back some layers, slowing things down, getting curious of what do you want in your life? And they're like, I don't know. Because when they're stressed, they actually go into escapism as their main method of coping. so escaping into
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (44:11)
Yeah, it sounds like they don't put themselves in the center of their money script.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (44:34)
it could be spending, could be snapping, could be gambling, could be food, could be video games, T V, whatever, what have you. but for them it's like, Okay, when things get tough, how do we not have you go into escape mode? Like how do we actually stay present with money? And so it might be more grounding tools
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (44:50)
sounds like that
could be part of the anger story, right? Escape to process the anger or not let it come out could be part of that. And it also makes me feel like, yeah, like you mentioned, like gambling, like it sounds like this type could run the risk of financial infidelity, hiding things to keep the peace.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (45:05)
yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 'Cause like I don't want to rock the boat. I don't want my partner mad at me. So I'm just going to let them go, do whatever I'm gonna do what I need to do or not say what I'm doing. but yeah, there's almost like this numbness to them at their most unhealthy, where they're like numbed out, dissociated, not really present. So a lot of grounding would help them. And then just a healthy place to express anger because they don't know what to do with that. They were taught maybe from a young age of expressing anger is not accepted. You're gonna have a consequence, you'll be punished for being angry or showing emotion.
So they have a lot of work just in the mental health realm to do oftentimes. But to keep things in balance, their strength would be they see the eye they see all sides of the story. So when they're in a mediation role truly, in like a workplace, they're gonna stay neutral and it's gonna help de-escalate things or keep things neutral, maybe even safer. So they really shine in some leadership roles when they're healthy. But if they're in escapism or numb, it's gonna be really hard to get to them.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (46:00)
Right. It's so in interesting and important to look at like, you know, the nature versus nurture also of like, okay, you have this nature, and then the nurturing is like, you make everything easier or can you handle that situation? Right. And so then those behaviors get reinforced socially, and then there's a little bit of a shadow there if it's not, you know, the the difficult part aspects of that habit, you know, aren't sort of recognized and processed as well.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (46:25)
Yeah, it's like their youngest parts say, I can't have any wants or needs, so I'm just not gonna be aware of what I want or need. Versus a two, because I'm gonna come back to you just for fun. A two is gonna be like, I actually get celebrated when I help people, when I'm a caregiver, when I like attend other folks. And so that's gonna reinforce their behavior a little bit too. So like all of these types again are you're born with them, but they get reinforced by the lived experience that you go through.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (46:49)
Yeah. Okay, we've walked around the whole, the circle, y'all, you know, and as you listen, did any of these kind of strike a chord for you? Or did you get like an absolutely not? Or a little bit of like, I don't like that I see myself in any of those aspects. This is just an invitation to be curious. This is kind of a cool framework to get into, and there's lots of resources, and I think Khara's book is a really good one. So, Khara I'm curious. Could you tell us a little more? Now that you've you've written the book, you've done the certification, how is this
coming into your financial therapy work, you're saying you're doing like typing, is it sort of like an interview process? And then where does that go after that?
Khara Croswaite Brindle (47:25)
Yeah, so for folks who have heard all about the nine types and are like, I still don't feel clear or clearer on what my type is. I love working with professional helpers of all types. So, like in the sense of like you can be a nurse, a doctor, a a PA, whatever it looks like. Yeah, teacher, OT, speech therapist, therapist. I like helping those folks because I think there's so much insight that comes from like, this might be why I do what I do in the workplace or why I'm drawn to this profession. but a typing interview, in essence, at least how I've structured it is you come in.
I give you a little bit of a disclaimer of like, hey, I'm not here to like narrow down to your top type, but we are going to look at your top three. I want to be asking you a bunch of open questions. You can elaborate or pass on any of the questions. But oftentimes they're just getting to that core motivation. So like for a two, I'm going to ask how important are relationships to you? And a two is going to respond. Very important. And the way they say that is also something I'm clocking. So these are all video interviews because I'm talking to people all over the world, but I'm looking at their body language, their facial expression, how quick or slow they are to answer said question is just as telling.
As the answer, if that makes sense. And so I'm asking about three or four questions around each of the nine types, and then we're narrowing things down. For folks who aren't familiar, then I gave them a quick overview, like we did here, of like this is why you're not an eight or why you're not a five or why you're not a two. and then we get curious of like, okay, here are the top three. What resonates with you? Where do you want to take a deep dive from here? So it might be a book, a podcast episode, more of their own self-work that they might want to do. but there have been, you know, a couple times where I'm like, you're very much your type, and I'm just gonna like say this is.
What you are, and like let's see how this resonates. But it's always curiosity, like we've done here. does this resonate with you? They could also say, Khara no, you got it wrong because I'm still a human and I'm not a robot and I can't do this perfectly. but for a lot of folks, they feel very seen, which is why it's such a beautiful offering for me. I really enjoy the process of getting to know this person for an hour and also have a lot of wondering of like, okay, people who aren't mental health trained, stuff comes up when I ask these questions, almost like I'm holding a safe.
Space for that. So long story short, about an hour, very open-ended questions, but hopefully another tool of self-discovery
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (49:32)
Thats fantastic.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (49:36)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. And there's actually a book called The Path Between Us that is a nice little like handbook of here's your type, here's their type, here's some like quick little bullet points of how to do better, quote unquote, in that relationship, or to how to hold empathy for them. so I love to call it that book as a resource 'cause I'm like, I like the little guide at the back of each chapter of like here's how you best respond to this type if they are your partner.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (50:06)
That's fantastic. Well, Khara I just love how you brought this together and become an expert yourself. Very three of you to follow that lead. And like I'm gonna keep doing, I'm gonna really like be an expert in this. It's such a beautiful strength. And I know you do so many aspects of your work, and it's just it's so awesome to watch. So thank you for for that.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (50:05)
The Path Between Us. Love it. Mm-hmm.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (50:29)
if anyone wants to get in touch with you or find out more, how could they do that?
Khara Croswaite Brindle (50:32)
Yeah, I mean right now the website has everything that I do. So for some folks that'll be overwhelming. For others, like, ooh, let's take a deep dive. so Croswaite Counseling, PLLC I know you'll put that in the show notes. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn, although I'm having a a question of like how long don't how long do I want to be on those things? 'Cause like self care. so yeah, yeah.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (50:50)
That's the I think that's the zeitgeist right now. Get catch her while you can,
everyone.
Khara Croswaite Brindle (50:55)
Yeah, I like I'll probably keep
LinkedIn for sure because it's the professional side. But yeah, I think just in full transparency, websites where everything is gonna be most up to date and possibly LinkedIn for now, but still Facebook and Instagram as well for folks on there.
Rachel Duncan CFT ATR-P (51:08)
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom here and walking through the types. And, you know, for for all of you listening, I really I hope that it has brought up, you know, something that's validating, might have brought up something that's challenging, and for you to consider looking at the Enneagram more. Thanks Rachel Thanks so much.
Rachel Duncan (51:31)
Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club podcast. Here's the funny thing about podcasts, they are surprisingly hard to find. But once you find one that really speaks to you, you're totally in. I know it is for me. So word of mouth is truly how small shows like this grow. Maybe you even found this one because someone shared it with you. So I'm going to ask you to become a financial activist today. If this episode resonated, please send it to someone.
A friend, a sibling, a colleague, your book club. I'm asking you to be the brave one who says, Hey, there's something deeper going on with money for all of us. And who knows, your friends might think you're brave and maybe secretly very good at money for sharing a podcast like this. You also may find a new layer opens up in your relationships. So thank you for sharing the podcast.
And we are always looking for new listener questions and stories to feature on an upcoming episode. Go on over to moneyhealingclub.com/podcast, and there's a big orange button where you can record your story, your question right there from your phone or browser. I want to hear it. And if you're looking to get more support on your money journey, there's lots of other financial therapy goodness at moneyhealingclub.com from group programs to courses.
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Rachel Duncan (53:16)