S2 E44: 🎨 Making YOUR Money Visible: An Art Therapist's Take w/ Bonnie Walchuk
EPISODE SUMMARY
What if the reason you can't talk your way through your money stress… is because money doesn't live in words? In this episode of The Money Healing Club podcast, host Rachel Duncan, certified financial therapist and art therapist, sits down with her dear friend and fellow art therapist Bonnie Walchuk to explore how creativity, imagery, and non-verbal processing can crack open the emotional side of your financial life in ways that talk therapy alone sometimes can't reach.
They dig into what art therapy actually is (hint: stick figures are very welcome), what happens in a real session, and why making something ugly might be the most healing thing you do today.
"Our minds, bodies, and hearts are holding a lot — art therapy is about getting what's going on out on paper, in front of us, so we can look at it a different way." — Bonnie Walchuk
Key Takeaways:
You do not need to be "good at art" for art therapy to be deeply transformative. Ugly art can be the most healing art.
The three C's to avoid in art therapy: Criticism, Comparison, and Critique of yourself and others
Making a visual image of something (grief, money stress, the inner critic) externalizes it from your body, which is part of the healing
A simple at-home practice: close your eyes, set a timer for one minute, and scribble your feelings about money. Then ask the image: What do you need right now?
Money stress shows up in therapy rooms constantly, often layered with shame, self-doubt, and "am I enough?" thinking
Seasonal thinking about money (rather than rigid monthly budgeting) can offer more compassion and groundedness, especially for self-employed folks
About Bonnie Walchuk: Bonnie is a board-certified art therapist and licensed marriage and family therapist who has spent years supporting people through cancer care, medical trauma, grief, chronic illness, and major life transitions. She is the president and founder of Dream Big Wellness, a Seattle-based nonprofit dedicated to increasing equitable access to art therapy and integrative wellness services, including sliding scale individual care, workshops, retreats, and community programs. Rachel is proud to serve on their board of directors.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN:
00:00 | What Art Therapy Actually Is (and Isn't) Bonnie demystifies art therapy as a credentialed mental health profession: not arts and crafts, not "fun time," and definitely not just for artists. It's a tool for processing what words alone can't reach.
~10:00 | The Three C's — Criticism, Comparison & Critique Bonnie shares the core rules she sets for every group she facilitates, and why even the most well-meaning "that's so pretty!" can undermine the whole process.
~22:00 | When Money Enters the Room From couples therapy to cancer care, Bonnie shares how financial stress almost always shows up — and how art therapy helps clients externalize and dialogue with their inner critic around money.
~25:00 | A DIY Art Practice for Your Money Feelings Bonnie walks listeners through a one-minute eyes-closed scribble exercise and shows how to use it to build distress tolerance and self-compassion around money — no art supplies required beyond a pen and paper.
~28:00 | Money as a Weather Pattern: Bonnie's Live Money Visualization Rachel puts Bonnie in the hot seat with her signature "money as a creature" prompt — and Bonnie's response about seasons, ebbs, flows, and the quiet groundedness of autumn is genuinely moving.
📚 Resources Mentioned
Mixed Emotions Card Deck — An evocative deck of image-based emotion cards
💌 Connect with Bonnie
☎️ Join the Conversation!
Did this episode inspire you to make some art? Rachel would genuinely love to see it. Did you try the money scribble exercise? Did a creature, a color, a season show up when you thought about your money?
Hit the big orange button on our site and share your story: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
🎧 Your next listen:
If this episode resonated, you might love any episode where Rachel explores how your nervous system, body, and emotions are at the root of your money patterns. Search the archive at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast for more financial therapy goodness.
🌎 This Episode is Part of Podcasthon
This episode is our contribution to Podcasthon — an international initiative where podcasters worldwide dedicate one episode to a charity, releasing them simultaneously in mid-March 2026 to create a massive wave of awareness. We're dedicating this one to Dream Big Wellness. No donations needed — it's purely about connecting incredible organizations with new audiences. The last edition brought together 1,500+ podcasters from 40+ countries.
If you're a host and this resonates, registration is free and easy: https://podcasthon.org/register
💝 Support the Podcast
Help keep the Money Healing Club podcast going! If this show has helped you feel less alone or more grounded with money, please consider contributing: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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🎨 Making YOUR Money Visible: An Art Therapist's Take w/ Bonnie Walchuk
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[00:00:00]
Rachel Duncan: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host, Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist and founder of the Money Healing Club, which is a place where even the most financially avoidant folks can get therapy informed support. Reminder, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace mental health care or financial advice.
Please take care with where you get your advice.
So what can you do when words alone fall short to process what you're going through? Well, I'm here to say, make an image of it. This is the question I brought into this conversation today with my dear friend and fellow art therapist Bonnie Walchuk. Bonnie and I met way back in grad school and I have been so inspired watching her blend her creativity with her clinical care ever since.
She is my go-to for professional consultations about art therapy, as well as one of [00:01:00] my dearest personal friends. Bonnie Walchuk is a board certified art therapist and licensed marriage and family therapist who spent years supporting people through cancer care, medical trauma, grief, loss, chronic illness, major life transitions with such compassion, integrity, deep listening and creativity. She's also the president and founder of Dream Big Wellness, a Seattle based nonprofit dedicated to increasing equitable access to art therapy and integrative wellness services, including workshops, retreats, sliding scale, individual care, community programs, so much stuff going on.
She does this so that more people can access healing in ways that words alone can't reach. I'm proud to be on their board of directors, learn more and support their programs and mission at dreambigwellness.org. In this episode, you're going to walk away with three things. Number one, a clear sense of what art therapy actually is and isn't, and why you don't need to be [00:02:00] good at art
for it to be deeply transformative. Actually, the ugly art can sometimes be the best thing to make. Two, you're gonna get simple art-based practice that you can try at home to help make sense of feelings that are too big or too vague or too tangled to put in words. And I really hope you walk away with a new perspective on how creativity and body awareness and meaning making all work together to support healing, especially when life feels overwhelming.
And it might right now. Art is a powerful way of knowing. So if you wanna know about creative ways to settle your nervous system, make an image out of grief, or simply have a space to feel Bonnie's grounded insight and warmth in this conversation, we'll meet you exactly where you are. She reminds us.
Bring your stick figures, guys. All right. Let's talk about what we don't usually say when we talk about art therapy with Bonnie Walchuk.
Rachel Duncan: Okay. Bonnie, [00:03:00] tell me in the plainest language, what is art therapy? When people ask what is art therapy, how do you usually answer?
Bonnie: Yeah, I usually say art therapy
is a mental health profession that is guided by a, uh, art therapist who has a master's degree in art therapy and has done some postgraduate work and supervision in art therapy. So. Most art therapists or some art therapists have, uh, both a dual training in a mental health profession as well as
art therapy profession.
Rachel Duncan: Very cool. Right? This is not like arts and crafts folks. Like this is a profession that requires graduate training and is credentialed and all that stuff.
Bonnie: Yes.
Rachel Duncan: do you find yourself answering like, what is art therapy not?
Bonnie: Oh yeah, definitely. So I do a lot
of presentations on art therapy and in most of my presentations I include that too. So, one of the things that I usually say is art therapy
Uh, there's no art experience required to do art therapy. [00:04:00] we're not interested in necessarily like what your art looks like or creating your best art, or making any kind of artistic. Thing that you wanna hang on the wall. We're not, uh, trying to use art as a class for improving your skill. I think definitely what art therapy is not, it's not like fun arts and crafts time. not only for kids, it's not for artists, it's not, where, uh. We're gonna come and have like playtime or fun time.
And even though sometimes it does end up being fun, that's not necessarily the thing that we're using as art therapists. We're using art as a way
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: to be able to process life's most challenging moments and really difficult experiences. A lot of those moments can be, uh, traumatic moments that come up in art.
So we're really processing really deep stuff with art. There's all different ways that art can be used and in groups or some other experiences. There might be laughter, there might be fun along with it. [00:05:00] we're not using it just like for kids and for making something. I think what we get a lot as art therapists is how to improve skill because art has a history of being in this, like skill-based and it is a skill-based practice.
Or if you keep practicing art, then you can learn how to draw something a certain way. But we're not looking about, me, about how to make art a certain way. We're looking about how to use art as a tool for processing our emotional and psychological experiences.
Rachel Duncan: I love that. Thank you. And yeah, I find that a lot of folks, oh, you know, my cousin's artistic, they would love it or they're an artist. And while absolutely open to that, I find that people who have like a lot of experience in art. Often struggle with art therapy because it's not about product because it's about process.
'cause it's often about making something that you don't like or that is ugly or is not, you know, doesn't follow design principles. And while art therapists like we have to have a lot of background [00:06:00] training in all the classic. Visual arts of all medium. And so a lot of us, you know, obviously come from this, from artistic background.
The work, I don't know, I always kind of joke like, I think my first challenge when we went to grad school is making something that didn't look good.
Bonnie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: I think that was a real challenge. It still kind of is sometimes, although I, I am on the other side of that now, like, ah, I ugly art all the time because it's the process, right?
Bonnie: Not here to your art look better Yeah.
coming from, like as you said, we have to have this art background. And so when we're coming into art therapy training and we are looking at our art and trying to think about how to make it look better, what can we do differently?
And that's not what we're doing in art therapy at all.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: uh, one of the ways that I describe art therapy is more like, our minds, bodies and hearts are holding a lot trying to get what is going on inside of us
out on paper or out in front of us so that we can look at it a different way and we can process that
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: that and maybe a tangible way that we can [00:07:00] do through non-verbal processing than what can do through describing trying to describe what we're feeling. So if we think about our therapy as a way of getting out what's going on inside of us. That maybe doesn't look like good pretty art that we wanna critique and make better, right?
Rachel Duncan: That's why we're at, that's why the client's at our therapy, because life doesn't feel like that on the inside.
Bonnie: yeah, yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: So that's kind of how I describe this process and
when working with
people as well.
coming into art, I think, uh, you know, I've said this in some presentations before that people,
you know we pair these two words together, art and therapy, and then say, this is gonna be fun, or this is gonna be a great experience and that's not, those two words have a history.
Both of that like kind of comes in with judgment or criticism or am I not doing something good enough or I'm not doing something right and I need to fix something. classically from like the history of therapy, history [00:08:00] of art, and then we're changing this dynamic saying this will be helpful. So it takes time
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: to kind of get there and experience it yourself to feel like, how can this be really helpful? And there's so many moments usually by like second or third session that it's like, oh, this
is what this is about and that's great.
Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Right? 'cause so often I think when I talk to people about art therapy, like there's a lot of respect. Like, oh, I get that, but also I can only make stick figures. I'm like. Bring your stick figures. That's great. Like that's not, you know, I think, I think there are some layers because so often if we received any kind of judgment as a kid about art making, I mean, often it takes that like one teacher or one friend to say something critical when kids are often at a very.
Delicate stage at like older childhood where they want to make something look realistic and it's hard, right? 'cause they also don't have the skills to do it, but they really want to. And it's such a special time because the, if there's any [00:09:00] criticism, if they face too much judgment or self judgment and they stop, that's often the last time someone has tried to draw.
And then the kids who are lucky enough to like have the right kind of supports or whatever it is to get. Through that awkward phase, they're the ones who can go get onto the next stage of like, say, drawing realistically or you know, getting on the other side of that inner critic. And so I kind of, I kinda let let my groups, my clients know like if you still draw, if you draw like a kid, it's probably 'cause that's the last time you drew.
' cause I got stopped there.
Bonnie: Got stopped there. And usually, like you said, there was some kind of experience that stopped it from, you know, that there was some kind of criticism or something that I learned like I'm good at or not good at, at one point in time.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: And so
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: I
think, when I'm entering into facilitating groups,
I'm entering into. Uh, a space of guiding art therapy experiences. I have some core rules that I kind of set up. I'm okay to share these publicly,
Rachel Duncan: oh [00:10:00] yeah, that'd be great. We'll put it in the show notes.
Bonnie: thing that I always say is, this is a safe, kind, non-judgmental space, and we're not judging your artwork. And then I constantly remind people to try to stay away from what I call the three Cs, which is, uh, criticism, comparison, and critique. So I'm not critiquing your artwork. I hope you're not critiquing your artwork either. we're not gonna try to compare our artwork to other peoples. We're also not gonna try to compare our experience to other peoples. So if you are having like a challenging art experience and someone's over there just loving their drawing, we're not comparing our experiences of the art making process, we're not comparing the experiences of our stories.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: away from that comparison. And then also criticism, and then something that, you know, that you know about, we can talk about this more later, but know that one of the hardest things is to not make
any comments about artwork.
You know, we've learned like, oh, that's [00:11:00] so good, or that's so pretty. And even trying to stay away from those comments can be really challenging. But
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: we, if we make those comments, then. it is a judgment still. It's still kind of like seeking this like approval from whatever their process was. And if you don't see that to the next picture or the next person beside you,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: Then that brings up the comparison aspect. So we try to stay away from those comments as well. So also
Rachel Duncan: absolutely.
Bonnie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: I think as, as art therapists, so much of our training is in that safety and. You know, we're very careful how we talk about a client's artwork, how we talk about them and their creative process. Right. And I have found it very helpful also, being a parent, you know, with my kids, you know, because of course be like, ah, that's so great.
And sometimes of course that slips out nonclinical setting, but you know, the question's like, wow, tell me more. Or Wow, I saw you worked really hard on that. Right. More things that are, turn it back to the, the goodness of just creation and that I accept all of them [00:12:00] and no matter what they make, you know, and, and so it's been so helpful as a parent also to, to have this, this way of treating our work.
Bonnie: yeah. Absolutely. And I think that kind of comes back to the of what is art
Therapy and what is not Art therapy
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: is that art therapists have a different way of thinking,
a different way of
speaking, a different way we're guiding the process then versus like doing art in therapy.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: I think that that's a lot
the big difference there
uh, you know, we're not using, not like an Art Techniques book or, you know, there's a lot of like
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Yeah.
Bonnie: art therapy toolkit or something,
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: or guidebooks. but we're not doing projects or like doing art therapy. We're guiding from a place of the way that we are interacting and the way we are holding
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: space, the way that we are thinking about space and being, so, I always do this,
because I, I think it's like a file drawer.
Rachel Duncan: What do you mean? Like yeah, what's in the files? [00:13:00] What do you mean?
Bonnie: like a mental
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: file drawer. So I think our therapist, like we have our psychotherapy tools, our psychotherapy file drawer. Of IFS therapy, EMDR, strengths-based, solution focused, all of these other therapy approaches. But then we have another file drawer of all of these other art therapy approaches and techniques and skills and patience and ways to learn and hold space and how to hold really difficult things that come up outside of ourselves. Difficult images that maybe are too I always say like this is a place where we are trained to hold something that is maybe too hard to even say in words
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Mm. That's a perfect way to put it. And I think also what I, I think the reason why I often don't talk about my training as an art therapist because it's so integrated in what I do. I mean, obviously not, you know, I'm talk a lot more about financial therapy, but the, the two really are integrated for me where.
You know, my experience with a client, whether or not [00:14:00] they are making art is very visual for me, and that's giving me a lot of information, you know, instinctive stuff, my somatic experience, how I'm imagining the story they tell is like, as. As an artistic perspective, and that's also a thing that sets art therapy apart or is distinctive in the mental health world is we're also using our sensitivity to like the mind's eye as well as the physical, you know, what's out here and the textures and the colors and the shapes, like we're using all of that as clinical information.
It's all part of it, as well as what the client's saying, like all of it is there.
Bonnie: Yeah. And I think, you know, when you are talking about money
we're also paying attention to
Is what the client is expressing. Are they really trying to stay in a linear logic space? And are we, do we need to bring in some art material or bring
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Bonnie: in what kind of directive? What kind of materials do we need to use to pair [00:15:00] with this to help shift into a space of more emotional processing, or what they're needing?
Because sometimes staying in that safe, linear logic space can be a very safe zone. And art is a way where it kind of breaks them free of that and being able to see it differently.
Rachel Duncan: I think it can help a client who's feeling really stuck like, I understand this problem and what should happen perfectly like up here, right? Why am I still blocked? And I'm like, let's bring in the art. Because there's often right art speaking to really different side of the brain. Like we have a lot more intelligences going on than just like the left brain X, y, Z kind of stuff.
So then it's, it can often unblock. Uh, somebody, and, and get things moving and, oh, I never saw it like that. Or, no, that's actually really true for my experience, that color or that formation because we've such our, our brains are multitudes, but we often ignore the visual instinctive aspects of our brains.
So actually I would love, [00:16:00] Bonnie, could you kind of set the scene, let's say I'm coming in to an art therapy session with you and let's say its in person. 'cause I know you do both in person and online. Right?
Bonnie: Yes.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, so, but let's say it's in person. What is sort of like the structure of that hour? How does that, how does that go?
If I was to come into an art therapy session for the first time.
Bonnie: Yeah, I mean, I think it
really depends on the
client
and what the client's needs are
you know, but kind of general, like first time
introducing into art therapy in an in-person setting.
usually when clients come
into my office, sometimes there's people that want to do art therapy specifically. Sometimes there's people that say, don't make me do art. Please don't make me draw. They always say like, please don't make me draw. I'm just here 'cause I know I need a therapist.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: and so what I find though, in the first
or couple sessions. Or the first session, you know, when we start talking, there's often metaphor or imagery that they're trying to use to describe their experience. And so what I, and, [00:17:00] and, and I'll say all art therapists work differently. So I'm just speaking from a way that I work, is that often will start with talking. Sometimes, sometimes I'll give you an example.
of both times when it doesn't, but when it does start with talking, I'm listening for images
that come up in their description
and how they're sharing their experience.
'cause in that first session, we're doing some history gathering, assessing what the needs are. Excuse me. And so, when that image comes up, I might just say, can we map this out? Can we, can we draw that for me? Or can we like look at this? Can we use these materials to maybe describe that image? Or maybe I will hold up, I have this great deck of cards, you know, called. That has different images and pictures on it, and I will hold out different images
can we select an image that describes that experience.
Rachel Duncan: Oh, I do wanna say I love that tool. It's a deck of cards called Mixed Emotions, and it's so nice. each card has a different emotion [00:18:00] with a very evocative image. And I think sometimes, especially if client's like, I don't know how I feel, like I just feel bad. To look through there and get a lot more specific.
'cause it's often a mix. We don't just feel one thing. Right. I feel anxious and, hopeless about this. Right. Those are like two things that obviously get mixed up together. And the images is not just the word, but the image often brings up more for the clients. I just wanna shout out, I don't know who made those cards, but they're great.
Bonnie: they are great. Yes.
Yeah.
And I think that that's, that's key too, is to know that we might be filling a lot of different things all at the same time. So if we can use images to give names to those things. that helps describe the experience. And I've even used it, you know, and I work with couples 'cause I'm a marriage and family therapist, so sometimes using an image to say, no, I feel like this, this is how I feel.
Not like, 'cause I, our words are vocabulary around, talking about emotions can be really limited sometimes. Or we can get really stuck in the word of the emotion rather than [00:19:00] describing what that experience
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: is like that's going on inside. Okay.
Rachel Duncan: I love it.
Bonnie: I think I steered away from your question, the
Rachel Duncan: I'm sorry 'cause I derailed.
Bonnie: what was a, art therapy
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: session like? yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: there's also clients, I'll say for like in person or virtual, it's can be very similar where if I'm opening the session with an art therapy thing, it might be, Hey, do we need to make some art to shift gears?
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: uh, a moment where we kind of. things out on a page of what's going on, or I might guide a scribble drawing. I do this progressive relaxation with a scribble drawing to help shift into a space of a more relaxed state, and help them kind of notice maybe where their nervous system was at when they were coming in. So there's different, it depends, there's different tools on what the person is needing at that time. but sometimes they can walk away from
the session with an
image or a word that describes their experience that they do want to
[00:20:00] share with another person and say, this was my experience, or don't wanna share at all. Right? And just like, this is
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: this is mine. But I think it gives a lot
voice.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, I think you're right. It's, it still can be a verbal process. Like not necessarily, but like we're still often talking, we're talking in really different ways because there's this image or this thing that is taking some of the weight. Right, and like in therapy a lot we talk about like externalizing something like narrative therapy is very much about externalizing the problem.
Well, what if you actually create the problem out of clay or like a 3D thing? Now we're really externalizing it to the point where like, where on the table would you like to move that thing where it feels best for you? Right? We're like, it's taking the idea of externalizing
Bonnie: Yeah,
Rachel Duncan: really going for it.
Bonnie: yeah,
Rachel Duncan: Even like relating to it, what would you like to say to it? Where in your space does it feel good? What does it need right now? And literally altering [00:21:00] it and just very cool stuff that's so beyond our verbal layer starts to happen when we can do that, especially with topics that, like you said so beautifully.
Like it, we just don't have words for sometimes like grief, like trauma, uh, like money, really. Right? It's like, eh, it's there. I don't know. I have a felt sense about it, but I It's hard to actually talk about. Yeah.
Bonnie: I mean, we can talk about money
Rachel Duncan: So,
Bonnie: and how you, how I see that in both places
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Bonnie: right? How that comes up and some similarities there.
Rachel Duncan: Well, and I'm sure, so you work mostly with couples or a lot with couples. I'm sure you see money come into the room. How does that come in and how are you working with that?
Bonnie: Yeah definitely with couples. I also like, I, uh, specialize in kids or care and medical trauma, so I see money comes into the room a lot when we're talking
financial stress is often
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: Something that people are experiencing
And feeling financially limited.
It's can be
one of the major stressors for
of, I would say most [00:22:00] people, that I see come
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: in.
So, so the question was how do I do it with couples?
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, or like how, how about like actually more broadly, like when art therapy, you know, since it is like a primary tool for you. Well, let's talk about folks with chronic illness issues and there's obviously financial components.
Yeah. I'm just wondering how, like, how are some ways that money kind of enters the room? And how might you work with that with art therapy?
Bonnie: Yeah, I mean, I think that the story
right of. When you talk about money stories and kind of like people's stories, it goes together, kind of what is, what is coming up for them. I mean in a lot of
situations that I'm working with people and there's a lot of financial stress and distress and just not having enough resources to cover what they need that's, uh,
That's a factor. But I think what comes in is that am I not having enough resources or I do a little IFS stuff, which I [00:23:00] know too, you know, where I hear, uh, the, some similarities coming in is, am I not good enough or am I not doing something well enough?
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Bonnie: Do I need to be doing something more? they're like feelings of shame, self-doubt, guilt, like all come into play, I think. For any of those environments, working with couples, working with illness, working with money,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: is the inner critic voice in that dialogue about what is it, what am I telling myself about myself because of my money or financial situation?
Rachel Duncan: Right, so you might really be taking that and really externalizing. Let's really narrow in on that voice. Where is it coming from? When did it start? Right? Maybe even making an image about that voice. Yeah.
Bonnie: right?
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. That's where we go.
Bonnie: Where we go is we, we draw an image of that voice, you know, if we can picture that as a character or a part of ourselves, and, and I always say maybe the image is just a shape, maybe it's a scribble,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: maybe its something like a big [00:24:00] dot on a page, I don't know.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: we can start dialoguing with that image in that spot about like, what is, like you said, what is it telling us? What do you need to tell it? and if it could say something to you, what would it tell you?
Rachel Duncan: I love that. You know, I wanted to ask like, is there, you know, maybe an idea that you could give my listeners for, if they wanna do a little art therapy on their own, beyond, like adult coloring books, if someone has like a journal and some color pencils right now and are thinking about money and money, stress, what might be some interesting prompts you would give them?
Bonnie: Oh yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Hmm.
Bonnie: well. If you could draw your money as a scribble, what would the scribble shape be? You know, so like the one, I do love the scribble for one minute type of technique. 'cause and when I'm thinking about money, just scribbling on a page with my eyes closed
Rachel Duncan: Ooh, I've never done that. Okay. I'm gonna do that in the next Money Healing Club meeting y'all. That's a great [00:25:00] idea.
Bonnie: You can't judge yourself when you have your eyes closed when you're drawing.
Rachel Duncan: And like a minute is longer than you think, right? Like a minute is actually like, I am tired of this, right? Like I could see myself like at first maybe going into it with gusto or maybe some apprehension and then like at 20 seconds feeling like, okay, I'm kind of done here. I'm like, no, we're gonna sit here.
Bonnie: and scribbling about it.
Rachel Duncan: I'm done. Thinking about isn't right. Isn't that interesting? Okay. I'm totally gonna do that. I love that.
Bonnie: Maybe if you're feeling really good about your money, the the minute might go by fast, right? It could be like really slow and smooth and wonderful. Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: And at the close of that minute, how might you like, support the person, you know, especially if it was dysregulating, which it could easily be. What kinds of, uh, what kinds of ways would you come to some sense of completion with it?
Bonnie: Yeah. I mean, so I would scribble again, that's what I, I would
Rachel Duncan: Mm.
Bonnie: continue scribbling until we get to a place where it feels a little bit more relaxing. Uh, in guiding, I would [00:26:00] maybe do some guided imagery along with it, pausing, doing some grounding techniques, after the scribble. I think maybe dialoguing with the scribble, talking to it, going on here and is there any room or space for grace that you can give yourself and extra
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: room for kindness around this scribble
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I mean, you can go so many directions too, like are there any. You know, images that have come up in your scribble now that you're looking at it, right? Like, is there somewhere additional information? 'cause this is all teaching distress tolerance, right? We're gonna sit with this thing.
You're okay to sit with this thing? Especially in like a safe atmosphere with a financial therapist, or sorry, with an art therapist. Or if someone's on their own, right? Like, I am, okay. I'm just making a scribble about money. That's it, right? This is not actually like a life-threatening situation and that starts doing a lot in your brain.
I was like, oh, is this an okay thing for me to be with? Where you like expand that container just a little bit?
Bonnie: yeah,[00:27:00]
Yeah.
I even, so if we're writing, if we're creating a, a image of our money, right, then maybe that image is like, well, that's not an image I wanna look up. That's an image that I've been feeling inside. So thank goodness that's sounds somewhere outside of your body, not something you're holding anymore in here.
Rachel Duncan: Hmm.
Bonnie: Uh, but if you have that image?
Maybe, is there anything that the image needs,
is there anything you want to change about the image
If you were to add a support into the image, what would that look like?
If there was something
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: like a big, cozy blanket or cup of tea that you could offer the image, what would that look like or feel like to it?
You know? So I could just take it on forever. I can roll with this for all day.
Rachel Duncan: That's, and that's my favorite one two punch. Right? Make the image, maybe it's distressing, and then dialogue with it. What do you need right now? And, and give it to that and, and notice that feeling. And,
Bonnie: Hmm.
Rachel Duncan: it, well, you know what I'm gonna ask you next. Bonnie
Bonnie: Yeah. Okay. But do I,
Rachel Duncan: Okay. Bonnie, if you were to, I'd like you to picture [00:28:00] your money as a creature real imagined, go with your first instinctive hit.
Bonnie: Yeah. You know, I knew this question was coming.
Rachel Duncan: It's my trademark.
Bonnie: I knew it was coming, but I, I haven't, you know, and I have thought about that when I've listened to your podcast before,
Rachel Duncan: Okay.
Bonnie: But today, this is different. Uh, I think
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: I'm picturing my money as a weather pattern, you know,
It seems more, my money seems more seasonal. So, and maybe it's just we are in
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: the autumn season that I'm feeling like. Leaves. It's not falling off of trees. We'll tell you that, but
Rachel Duncan: and I'm growing trees folks. We do know that,
Bonnie: coming from that. But, yeah, I do think that there is seasonal or times
I think there's
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: ebbs and flows and times when it changes. And maybe there's a sense of, of groundedness in that, that there might be times where it feels like a little bit of a dip and sometimes where it feels like a
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Bonnie: bit of a [00:29:00] rise.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: a more of a, like a seasonal flow to it rather than it feeling. Yeah. I don't know. Like
Rachel Duncan: that, that's so true.
Bonnie: character today.
Rachel Duncan: Right. Yeah. It's an experience. It almost feels, I don't know, I feel like, well, my art therapist brain is, is, is in this like kind of four seasons feel with you and
Bonnie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: even I'm kind of, my brain like goes, starts flipping through the calendar, right? And. And it is something that I think we often think, oh, it needs to stick to a monthly budget and a monthly budget like is important, but like actually it's the annual stuff that throws us off and is often the most important stuff to us.
And yeah, absolutely. Especially being self-employed, right? It does. There are ebbs and flows and being in business and things like that,
Bonnie: And there might be a month
Rachel Duncan: so
Bonnie: where it's like a real financial dip, you know? I'm like, oh this is really,
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Bonnie: a stressful, this is a stressful dip. And maybe. That helps a little bit just to
that this is gonna be a month that I have a little
bit less or a lot less,
Rachel Duncan: yeah,
Bonnie: this is gonna [00:30:00] be a stressful month but maybe
the next season
you know to remind myself that there is an
ebb and flow.
Rachel Duncan: This is a season, and so with this image of money as seasons, if you were to ask it, what does it need to feel more complete and okay, what, what does it need?
Bonnie: My initial thought
is summer year round. All day long.
Rachel Duncan: like, okay, y'all, I know Bonnie pretty well and I know she just wants to live somewhere tropical, so I know that that's part of you
Bonnie: I would love warm weather year round
Rachel Duncan: But Bonnie does not live somewhere tropical everybody.
Bonnie: Yeah. just in my mind
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Bonnie: So
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, but more summer, more summer, all year round. Yeah.
Bonnie: yeah, I think like, or maybe, you know, there's that consistent weather pattern, so,
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm. That would feel really good. Yeah. Alright, well, as my fake client, I encourage you to make some art [00:31:00] about these seasons and what that feels like. Okay, good.
Bonnie: do all kinds of things.
Rachel Duncan: Thank you. so Bonnie could you, could we close out with just sharing a little bit about how folks could work with you and your organization?
Bonnie: Yeah. So, we run a nonprofit with me and a couple wonderful business partners called Dream Big Wellness. It specializes in cancer care, chronic illness, chronic pain, but we see everyone, adults, the children. We have four therapists, soon to be five and seven clinicians, and you're welcome to reach out to
at
Rachel Duncan: And which states are you licensed in That folks can work with you. Oh, okay. Right now, only in Washington, but also hop over to, uh, get on their email list. Even if you're not in Washington for other trainings and other activities going on that are nonclinical
Bonnie: that's right. Rachel yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Bonnie: that.
Rachel Duncan: that's okay.
Bonnie: We do a lot of things at Dream Big Wellness that are, uh,
Rachel Duncan: You do?
Bonnie: Open to more of the community. We have a lot of community [00:32:00] partnerships and trainings, retreats, other types of partnerships that we do in the cancer care community as well. But then we do our also individual therapy services and
Rachel Duncan: Well, everyone, I am very proud to be on the board of your amazing organization and you're doing incredible work. So, yeah,
Bonnie: We are grateful to have you. Yeah. Dream Big Wellness
Rachel Duncan: exists because
Bonnie: of Rachel.
Rachel Duncan: I don't know about that. I think it pretty much exists. 'cause of you, honey. Well, you're doing such good work and thank you so much for introducing everyone to art therapy and I'm sure we will, uh, it will get some real gears turning.
And by the way, if you're listening to this and you have made any artwork, please email me. I would, if you'd like to share it, I'd love to see if this conversation brought up any images for, for you as a listener. Alright, well thank you Bonnie, for sharing your incredible expertise with my audience.
Bonnie: yeah. Thank you, Rach. Oh,
Rachel Duncan: Oh.
Bonnie: thank you.
Rachel Duncan: [00:33:00] Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club podcast. Here's the funny thing about podcasts. They are surprisingly hard to find, but once you find one that really speaks to you, you're totally in.
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