S2 E36: 📦 Book Club: No New Things
EPISODE SUMMARY
What if the answer to overspending isn't willpower, but simply... buying nothing new for 30 days? Rachel chats with Angie Fitzpatrick on the Money Healing Club Podcast to discuss Ashlee Piper's book "No New Things: A Radically Simple 30-Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet and Your Sanity." They explore why we have so much stuff we don't need, how the returns system is broken, and why borrowing your neighbor's rubber bands might be the key to building community. Plus: the surprising link between gratitude and impulse spending.
💬 "Only 2% of purchases were returned 25 years ago. Now we send back 3.5 billion products a year worth a trillion dollars. We are buying stuff that we're not even using, then we're sending it back."
Key Takeaways:
• Overconsumption affects your money, mental health, AND the environment simultaneously
• The average American has 300,000 things - no wonder we forget what we already have!
• Cultivating gratitude practice directly reduces impulse spending (backed by eco-psychologists)
• The SUPER acronym helps you find alternatives to buying new (Secondhand, Upcycling, Paying nothing, Renting)
• Tracking your triggers reveals the patterns driving your purchases
About Angie Fitzpatrick:
Angie is the program manager of the Money Healing Club community and returning podcast guest. You can catch Angie sharing about 🚺What the Wage Gap Doesn’t Tell You: The Hidden Financial Burdens Women Face
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN:
02:30 | What Makes This Buy Nothing Challenge Different
How Piper turns a simple challenge into a manifesto against hyper-consumption
08:00 | The Rubber Band Win: Community Over Commerce
Real stories of borrowing from neighbors and building unexpected connections
23:00 | The Trillion Dollar Returns Industry
How "no questions asked" returns spawned a reverse logistics nightmare
31:00 | Tracking Your Triggers
Identifying what drives you to shop and replacing it with actual joy
📚 Resources Mentioned
• "The Serviceberry" by Robin Wall Kimmerer
💬 Join the Conversation!
What's the ONE category you could commit to not buying new for 30 days? Holiday decor? Clothes? Food? What childhood hobby could you rediscover instead of shopping? The Money Healing Club podcast wants to hear your "no new things" commitment - click the big orange button to tell us your story: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
🎧 Your next listen:
Check out our episode on impulse spending to understand the emotional drivers behind the urge to buy. https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast/s1e1-hn73w
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Book Club: "No New Things" by Ashlee Piper
[00:00:00]
Rachel Duncan: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host Rachel Duncan. I'm a financial therapist and art therapist, and I founded the Money Healing Club. You've come to the softest place to land in personal finance where we talk about all the things we don't usually say when we talk about money. This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only.
For help with your particular situation, please seek help from a licensed mental health, tax, legal, or finance professional.
Rachel Duncan: Okay, everyone, I've got Angie, Dr. Angie Fitzpatrick from the Money Healing Club. Everybody here on the pod and we're gonna do a little book club talk. Angie, how you doing?
Angie: Hey y'all, I'm doing good. I have a big glass of water and an a mason jar. I have no idea where I got this jar from. I didn't buy it. I don't buy jars, I
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.[00:01:00]
Angie: just reuse jars. My husband kind of hates that 'cause we have many
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: jars probably. But I'm bringing some no new things vibes into the convo.
Rachel Duncan: So I was thinking it's a real symbol. It's a real symbol. And oh, I have my favorite mug that I got at a thrift store. So while it was new to me, it is not a new thing.
Angie: I love that is a curve
Rachel Duncan: So there we go.
Angie: the hand goes like,
Rachel Duncan: I know everyone on video. Look at this. It's a beautiful mug. I just wanna hold it forever. So yeah, it's my favorite thing.
The delicious dish. Okay, everyone,
Angie: Yes, let's do this.
Rachel Duncan: so some of you all might remember Angie's voice from a previous episode where we talked about, women and money, at the beginning of the year. It's still one of our top listen to episodes, so go back and check that out. But today, we're kind of doing like a cozy thing because in the club we've been reading this book called No New Things.
By Ashlee Piper. And I just thought it's a, would be a timely [00:02:00] thing for us to kind of talk about what we're loving and maybe not loving about the book, here on the podcast. 'cause it's, the number one thing we're talking about is impulse spending. I just rereleased an episode about that. So this is a, a kind of a cool guide for like, how could we really dig into this for maybe bigger reasons than just financial.
So Angie kick us off. What, what first strikes you about this book, or how would you introduce the book to somebody?
Angie: okay, so here's what I love about this book, because, okay, so I'll say that these buy nothing challenges aren't necessarily new, right? Like this has been around. What I really love about Piper is that takes that challenge. And turns it into something more. Something about, you know, it's a manifesto about how overconsumption is killing the planet, driving us nuts and, stealing our money. Right? So it's, it's like she takes
Rachel Duncan: Yes.
Angie: of the things about hyper consumption and gives us some [00:03:00] strategies that we can personally take in our everyday lives to push back. And reclaim our time, our money, our space. So what I really love about this book.
Rachel Duncan: I agree. I agree. And actually I should read the subtitle of the book is No New Things. A Radically Simple 30 Day Guide to Saving Money, the Planet and Your Sanity. So it's got this like great Venn diagram, right? Because it's not like, oh, spend less money, like, you know, but why what? We get so much more than just hanging onto our money.
That is an equal measure to the environmental impact. As well as like our mental health and feeling better about ourselves. So it's what I love 'cause it's like my whole thing is that it's not about deprivation, it's really about going towards something, which is probably your values on all of these things.
So I just, I love anything that's like, let's just check lots of boxes by one by one action. Not saying it's easy, right? This is, this is also a big challenge.
Angie: [00:04:00] Yeah. it is a big challenge. It's a
Rachel Duncan: Thanks.
Angie: very intentional challenge. It's a challenge that encourages deep reflection on the practices. Excuse me. It's a deep reflection on the practices that. Kind of get us into this place where we suddenly look around our home and it's like, why do I have so much junk? where did all this junk
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: come from? You know, she talks at the beginning of the book about how the more stuff we have, the more stuff we have to take care of, and that eats into our time. So,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: okay. So, you know, in the club we have this about no new things. And Rachel, you had invited us started reading the book to pick a thing, just one thing we're gonna say no to, like one new thing that we're gonna say no to this year.
And I said new holiday decor. So this was right around, this was before [00:05:00] Halloween. My husband had just pulled out multiple tubs stuff that we've collected over the years, and I didn't feel inspired. Looking at that stuff, I didn't feel like nostalgic, I just felt overwhelmed. I just realized like, this is so much stuff
Rachel Duncan: Cool.
Angie: we have to put it all out and then we're gonna have to take it down, and I don't wanna do that anymore.
So I made a commitment to one, get rid of some of that stuff and I did. But two, I'm not buying any more holiday decor this season.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: gonna use what I have. And be happy with that and if I feel
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: inspired to do something, I don't know, I'm gonna get out some like paper and scissors with my kids and just make some cute paper snowflakes,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: Target doesn't need my money. But also, you know, a lot of my holiday stuff comes from thrift stores and I love thrift stores, but I just, I have to say no for this season and it feels good.
Rachel Duncan: I know, I think that's, I I sometimes I fall into that too. 'cause I'm a big thrifter and I do think [00:06:00] that can be part of the puzzle and Piper talks about that as well. But I'll still go to Goodwill and come home with more stuff that I need to because it was a good deal because it was so cheap and I'm like, that kind of defeats the purpose when we think about like, everything you bring into your home, it, you're paying rent on it.
You know, it's taking up time and energy, a space maintenance, all that stuff. And, and I'm definitely not a minimalist. I don't love that. I don't love anything that's hyper restriction. I love my things and I do a lot of projects and I've got kids, so yeah, we're gonna have like a good amount of stuff. But you know, it's also this thing of like, we all probably have what we already
need, like we already have what we need and, and I will say like, this does come from a place of privilege, right? This is sort of like, Hey, are you housed? Do you have food? Do you have steady income? Do you, you know, a lot of those boxes checking, this is not saying, but like everyone on the planet should not acquire new things.
She's [00:07:00] definitely speaking to, I dunno, a quote unquote middle class audience where our basic needs are met, right? So I think that's important to say. I, I heard something years ago that like the average American has no fewer than 300,000 things. Like that's a number that I can't even,
Angie: That's a lot.
Rachel Duncan: in some way, shape, or form, like, and it's all cataloged in our heads somehow.
Right? Or it's, and so no wonder we forget. We forget that we have certain things because there's just so much of it.
Angie: Yeah, I'm a neuro spicy gal and one of the challenges I have is if I put it in a drawer, it's gone forever. I have no idea that it
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: exists, right?
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: I have to label the drawer
Rachel Duncan: outta sight outta mind.
Angie: I have to have a clear bin. so that is something that I think about a lot when taking stock of all the stuff I have, you know?
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: Or I think, oh, you know what I need? I need this one tool. Didn't I buy [00:08:00] that a while ago? Do I still have that? Is that around here somewhere. So yeah, I think, you know, to your point that our relationship to stuff not monolithic, right? Like folks with different income levels, different needs, we're gonna have a different relationship to things. What I like about Piper's approach to this no new things challenge is that she does invite us to get clear about how are we bringing things into our lives. Like for example, in the first week she says alright friends, the next 30 days stuff is going to come up, maybe someone has a birthday or you might
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Angie: be moving, right?
Think about what you're going to need how you can acquire it. yes, you could like just go onto Amazon, click buy, and someone will bring it to your house in two days, right? [00:09:00] Or you could put a call out to your neighborhood. You know, like maybe you're on Facebook and you're in the neighborhood group and you could say, Hey, does anybody have whatever? But like what, you know, like a tool that you are going to need
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: for one project. Do you have to buy that
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: tool or could you borrow it from somebody
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: you pull out a gift card? That you have for a place and use that
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: to buy the thing. So she's really inviting us to be more intentional and more creative about how we bring stuff into our lives, and I like that.
Rachel Duncan: Which is, and really talking about impulse spending at its root, like a lot. Now we can't anticipate everything, but there's quite a few things. You, if you really, if we had a quiet moment like, December's coming up. Right. And like, and have as much as you can, a few things in place. Thinking ahead a little bit and, you know, I love, she talks about then, you know, this Venn diagram again of how these things overlap.
Not only, you know, when you borrow. A tool from your neighbor. Not only are you saving money on that, [00:10:00] but now you have a connection with your neighbor. And I think, doesn't she have a story about like borrowing a rolling pin from a neighbor and now like she's learning to bake from her and now she has this whole new friendship.
So I think that's, it's not just about spending less, it's actually like such an invitation to community. Oh, I have a win. Just yesterday, my, one of my sons is an engineer at heart and he was creating this Lego machine that shoots rubber bands automatically. It's like a semi-automatic rubber machine,
Angie: That's
Rachel Duncan: band shooter.
Angie: so cool
Rachel Duncan: very cool. And we couldn't find enough rubber bands that were the right size. And I happened to see my neighbor across the street who also has a son, and I said, Hey, do you just happen to have some rubber bands? Not only did he have rubber bands, but his son had made. A rubber band machine gun years ago and showed my son about it and did this whole Lego tour like.
It was this whole thing. And you know what, now we have this nice little golden thread with our neighbor and you give him a handful of rubber bands that are perfect, right? [00:11:00] Like, and I was this close, just like adding it to a cart. Let's just get some more rubber bands. And they're like, oh no, let's go check across the street.
So, you know, it's, and it takes, it's a little bit of vulnerability, right? It's not like they're all gonna work out so beautifully. But I think, you know, if you were ever approached like, Hey, could I use like, absolutely. Like we all have so many tools and so much stuff.
Angie: Okay. Yes. Yes. So, all right, I'm gonna share a similar community win. Okay. We live in Ohio by Lake Erie and love going to the beach and it's so hot on the beach. So we bought one of those canopies, the kind that you could use for a backyard barbecue and you could also use it at the beach. We actually only go to the beach like once or twice a year, so we don't use it that often. In our neighborhood Facebook group. A woman who lives down the street from me whose Facebook posts, sometimes I don't agree with her on a lot of stuff, right? And so it's easy for like my blood pressure to start rising when I'm reading her posts. Well she asked if anybody had one of these canopies.
She needed it for a Halloween [00:12:00] party. And I was like, you know what, Angie, You could see this person as someone more than, you know, an annoying person on the internet you could connect with them, share the thing. And, anyway, it ended up being really nice and it was, it was just nice to like connect with her outside of reading posts that irritate me it gave her a human
Rachel Duncan: Yes.
Angie: face, right? So, yeah, big wins.
Rachel Duncan: So you're saying it's the answer to world peace as well, right?
Angie: Yes.
Rachel Duncan: yes.
Angie: Solve the climate crisis, save your money and, bring about world peace. Absolutely.
Rachel Duncan: There we go. We need to see each other as three dimensional beings who still like need to borrow a garment steamer, you know, stuff like that. Exactly. So also, I will say Piper is definitely focusing on stuff, on items. Which is great but you know, there's also an invitation, Hey, you could also extend it to other stuff like services and things that are not stuff.
But she definitely focuses on [00:13:00] stuff, which I think is fair enough. But someone in the club actually mentioned to me like. I'm actually gonna think about like how I go to the salon and stuff like that.
So she has like her introduction. She came from like being a corporate high earner person when she kind of had some of these crisis, several sort of personal crises about like, where's my money going and why do I not know where any of my things are? And kind of did her own challenges and got that started.
And then part two. There's actually quite a good 20 pages on like the history of consumerism, which I think is super fascinating. You know, just like how consumerism has shifted over the last a hundred years, how consumerism is contagious. She has a chapter called Marketing Made Me Do It, and consumerism is contagious.
So really good. Also just normalizing, let's. Back up here. 'cause I think so many people come to me like, oh, I'm a garbage person because I impulse spend, or I can't get control of my spending. And I never see it as a personal failure because of these huge systemic things like we have been very much groomed to [00:14:00] consume.
So it's just like a good little geek out. You know, if you wanna do the geek out, you can also just fast forward to part three, which is the 30 day plan. Which is great too. It's like, okay, now we're, we're anxious to get this going. Oh, and I will say like at the beginning, I kind of wanted to choose one category as well.
So for a little while I've been trying to do no new food and I organized my freezer, got rid of old stuff, and I literally vacuumed my freezer 'cause there was like all that stuff at the bottom that felt great. It was gross y'all. And I also went through like my pantry and just like, what's in here?
Why do we all have lasagna noodles? Like, when's the last time you made a lasagna? So I was able to designate a few things for some food banks that weren't expired, but also just like bringing up, like, I mean, I saw all these beans from the pandemic. Remember when we all bought a lot of beans? Like I have so many beans now.
Prob some of them probably too old to really cook up, but it's been really good. Like I've made, yeah. Some bean soup. I've been doing more baking, just kind of like using up, [00:15:00] like, why do we have all this stuff that will not, it will not last forever. Even like shelf stable stuff. So, that's been my little personal challenge, which has been, which has been really good.
We still, we still have so much food.
Angie: seeing you post about. You know, your food challenge got me thinking about our pantry and our freezer. And so yeah, I'm like, all right,
Rachel Duncan: Oh, good.
Angie: do something with these lentils. Don't let them just sit
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: I did find some rice that could not be salvaged. I'll say one of the
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: Things you can do with expired beans is art, or, think about local childcare centers or preschools that have those sensory bins.
Rachel Duncan: Good idea.
Angie: You could put out a call on the. The free stuff page or you know, whatever kind of free community you have and, and invite folks to take your old beans and do something good with them.
Rachel Duncan: That's a great point. That's a really good point. And then, and when it comes down to it com, try to compost before putting it in [00:16:00] the, in the trash, right? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So we actually, in the club, we've been posting each of the days like prompts and we're only on, what are we on date? We're on day five, so we're still kind of early in this, but already it's, you know, there's a lot of great clarity and, and she kind of. Each day is a different little micro angle, but the first week is, is kind of about the foundations and I this kind of thinking ahead a little bit. I think that's super important.
And I also love, she starts with what are you going to do? So I wanted to talk about that 'cause it's sort of, I, I talk about like, what's your pleasure practice and she calls it list your loves. She's super into alliteration. So this is like a little homework and I'll drop this in the, the show notes.
She's like you, you gotta make two lists of things that you love to do because you know you're going into some pretty big habit changes, especially if we're really used to just buying the thing if you need it. So we don't wanna [00:17:00] go into this feeling like on edge or deprived, so she says, so one list is your quick hits, which are like short, easy grabs.
So I think of like stuff that you don't have to do any planning for or spend any money for, like looking out the window. Drinking a cup of tea, for me, like putting on hand lotion, right? Texting a friend, doing a light stretch, right? These are just like these easy grabs we all know we should do.
What I love is like, no, if you are going to change your habits in this way from like this high dopamine activity, like we've gotta bring in more pleasant experiences for you to connect with yourself and feel good. And then she has the longer and luxe list, which is like, you know, the heavier lifts that like actually going to an exercise class or a yoga class.
You know, it's stuff that's more accessible but is longer and more restorative. Also, like taking a bath reading for a while. I love, she says, organizing your purse. Right, like something that's a little more of a project, but like is feels really good to do.
Angie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:00] Making stuff, getting into your hobbies, stuff like that.
So for me, I was really glad I wrote that list because I'm, I'm a musician, but I don't spend a lot of time practicing, and I got this very cool drum for my birthday and I was making my, my longer and luxe list. I was like, I haven't practiced that drum very much in the last few weeks. And I just like, stopped what I'm doing and just like practiced my drum.
Ugh. And it felt so good. Angie, I'm wondering, was it, are there anything on your like quick hits or longer and luxe list that you like? Like going back to
Angie: Yes. So, um, of the things that I put on my quick hit list is lighting candles. I have so many
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: that I've accumulated. Either people have gifted them to me or. Picked them up at thrift stores or shops. And so just reminding myself, light a candle, smell something good in your house
Rachel Duncan: Love it.
Angie: Look at fire.
Right? Like, activate those senses. So that's been nice and I think I also had shared in the club that I have all of these greeting cards that I, I like to collect greeting cards at thrift stores and [00:19:00] yard sales. So one of the things I'm gonna do is I'm gonna sit down and write a card that's like an in-between thing, right?
I don't
Rachel Duncan: Oh.
Angie: to plan a lot, but I do have to sit down for a minute.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: And so yeah, that feels good to think about connecting and, you know, doing something besides dropping money. And I'll say those, quick hits and what's the luxe, what does she call the other
Rachel Duncan: Longer, and luxe.
Angie: Longer and luxe. Those really come in handy that first week too, when we start identifying the triggers.
Right? Like what is the
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: happens that prompts you to like chase that quick hit of dopamine through shopping? You know, what's the thing that happens before you open the Amazon app? Or, or even hit up the drive through? Like you said, Rachel, Piper really focuses a lot on things that we accumulate, but I don't know about folks here. I spend too much money on takeout and, I really wanna pair back it. The food doesn't even taste
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: good. I mean, let's be real
Rachel Duncan: [00:20:00] Yeah.
Angie: like
Rachel Duncan: It's pricey. Yeah.
Angie: pricey. It doesn't taste that good. It's full of stuff that I shouldn't be having every day. But anyway, so I'm really curious like, okay, what is the thing that's driving me to that and how could I.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: Pull out a nice thing of lotion from my purse instead of, know, going to Starbucks. So,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, and I'm noticing two things, like in both of our examples, it's, it's shopping our own closets. It's actually like enjoying the things we already have all of these examples. I already have candles. I already have musical instruments. You know, I already have a freezer full of food. And so it's very much just like slowing down appreciate what you already have.
And I believe it's in the book, The Serviceberry by Robin Kimmerer, she notes that Ecos psychologists have said that when we have a more active practice of gratitude, impulse spending goes down.
I feel like all of these are, this is again, this Venn diagram, this nice overlap. Not only am I feeling better and my body, these are things that align with my values and help me [00:21:00] decrease impulse spending, like I'm cultivating gratitude. At that same time, which just has like a multitude of effects. Like, I'm so grateful I have this mug.
I'm so grateful I have that candle. I'm so grateful I have this present or whatever it was, or this time to call a friend or have this connection with a neighbor. Right? And I think cultivating that gratitude, it already gets the ball rolling. Where, where spending less is not about restriction. It's about like this returning to a core value.
Angie: I love that and I think that's so important and something that I want to work with more when it comes to my children. So
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: My kids like to be on the tablet and play the games, right? The Minecraft, the Roblox, whatever, and they get a lot of advertising to buy new packages
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: right? Like for $3.99 you can get all these things and I'm really finding it difficult to encourage my kids to pause to think about [00:22:00] that purchase. Right? Yeah. So try bringing in some more of that gratitude just in general. Not have it be part of the conversation
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: about whether or not they can get a $5 advance on their allowance, but just the gratitude in general
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. And it's not about being preachy, you know? I think we can be honest. Oh, that would feel good. I can understand why that feels alluring. Yeah, right. Just like I'm understanding that too. But then we're gonna bring in all these other sides of like our knowledge.
I also know that we have gift season coming up. I also know that, oh, last week was a spendy week. Like we can bring in sort of all the sources of knowing and I do think a challenge like this can be helpful instead of going through all the decision fatigue is, but you know what? This month we're actually trying to not buy any new things and that can, I think that can be a nice shorthand if you want it.
Right. Hey, the default is actually not buying anything new and we're gonna give that a try and see how that feels. And it doesn't mean we're gonna do it forever, you know? And she's like, [00:23:00] I think she's very open with that. Like it might not be forever, but it will probably, aspects of this will stick. And I do think it's that slowing down considering, especially looking at, you know, how consumerism and marketing works.
Like, oh, none of this is in my interest. It's all in the company's interest for the most part.
Angie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Yep. Yep. Alright, let's talk about any other prompts from this week that you like. Where's the acronym?
Angie: While you're looking for that acronym
Rachel Duncan: Let's see.
Angie: can I talk about
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: returning merchandise?
Rachel Duncan: Ooh, I love returns.
Angie: Day six is about wrangling returns, and I do have some stuff that I need to return that has been sitting there for a few days. This was a good reminder.
Rachel Duncan: Nice.
Angie: that window closes, girl, get out and bring it back.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: But here's the thing that really surprised me and pissed me off. So did you know Rachel, that JC Penney. Is the store that introduced the idea of no questions [00:24:00] asked returns. You buy something you don't like it, you can bring it back. We will give you your money back. They introduced this about 25 years ago. Okay, like 2% of the stuff. What does it say? Only 2% of purchases were returned. So now every year in the US we send back 3.5 billion products, eighty percent of which was usable, this practice
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: has even spawned a reverse logistics industry. And our returns are like worth a trillion dollars a year.
Rachel Duncan: yeah,
Angie: If you
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Angie: we are buying stuff that we're not even using, then we're sending it back
Rachel Duncan: And 20% of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just this gross kind of back and forth. Yeah, it's interesting the, when I first met my husband who's from Ukraine and, and we spent some time in Ukraine, there's no returns in Ukraine [00:25:00] and it was such, it, it, we had several very comical things where like, you have to sit in the store, like I think his parents wanted a blender and we go to the store, we spent all day because we had to decide that was the right one 'cause we could not bring it back.
And I was kinda like, oh, well we just get it. Doesn't we bring it up? We'll bring it back. Like it don't work that way. Or like, even some food, like we'd gotten some, like some dried fruit that I thought was a little bit off. I was like, why don't we take it back? And the manager questioned us about it and I realized, oh, this is such a cultural thing that like customers always right, you can always bring it back.
Like it's not like that into the rest of the world. So if there aren't easy returns. Like, look how you have to slow down. You know? You really have to take your time and you have to research it, and you have to feel good about it and all of that. It feels like more of a risk. And here, like for on the consumer side, the risk has been eliminated, but we're just pushing that off [00:26:00] like environmentally and logistically, and then we're paying for that, right?
Because if there's all of this like reverse market, we're paying for that. Everything you're buying is also having to fund the whole system that's gonna handle the return.
Angie: Yes. Oh, it's so wild and it's something that I hadn't really thought about and, and so here's where like.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: I said I'm, I'm pissed about this. Here's where that anger comes from in thinking. It's not necessarily like, oh, Angie, you're a horrible person. You buy things in a turn 'em, right? Like, no, I'm a human operating in a system that, a system that has been set up to prey on my emotions
Rachel Duncan: Yes,
Angie: encourage me to see stuff as the fix all solution for whatever problem comes up in my life
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: then encourages me to bring it back.
Knowing full well they probably can't sell it again. Right. And,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: just wow. Yeah. Time to reevaluate the system.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: I'm definitely gonna be, like you said, [00:27:00] taking a little more time with my purchases in general and thinking about return,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: the truth is there are a lot of things that I've forgotten about them and I missed the window and, you know, that was money that I could have put in my retirement. I didn't, or whatever else I could have done with it, but I've been thinking about retirement
Rachel Duncan: dude.
Angie: a lot lately. Middle aged woman
Rachel Duncan: Good for you. That's another episode for sure. I mean I honestly get a dopamine hit from the return 'cause I'm like, gimme my money back. Like I love it. I think it feels so good. She has a really cool acronym, which I wanted to talk about because it's a nice little filter to think about something when you, when you're needing something.
'cause we all will need things. So the acronym is super. S is for shopping secondhand, right? Could do I have to get this brand new? Like is there another market for this, either from thrift stores or online, you know, whatever it is, U is for upcycling or using, so like, could I reimagine something I already have, like I went through this the other night.
There was an event at my [00:28:00] kid's school. We were kind of dressing up for it, and I really was committed to not buy a new dress. And so I have this long black dress, but it was kind of like frayed. And I like sewed this ribbon on the strap. I should show you I should take a picture. It looks so good. But I really like upcycled this dress to like be more formal by just like sewing something on it.
It was really fun. I even got like compliments on it. I'm like, okay, this is so funny. So that's upcycling. P is paying nothing, like do you have any store credit already or a gift card you need to use, or are you already paying save for like some membership that you're not utilizing? Also getting, getting something for free.
Like, Hey, we got these rubber bands for free. Like, could you just ask. Does anyone have this? I could borrow or like have, asking folks in your network, you know, finding it, I love finding it in the wild, like the curb, oh, you guys, this is my kryptonite is getting stuff off the curb. I just like, love it.
It's, it's a little bit of a problem, like even if I don't need the thing, I will get it from the curb just so [00:29:00] it doesn't go in the landfill. I sometimes will pick things up from the curb and then just take it straight to goodwill, so. It doesn't get trashed anyway. It's a problem. I truly know. But I mean, someone could have gotten it for free, you know?
I don't know. 'cause a lot of stuff it could, well, doesn't get sold. Ugh. It's such a problem. But yes, sometimes. And then R is renting, borrowing, or sharing. So you know, this S-U-P-E-R thing is just like a nice little thing to look through too, like. You know, could you do without, could you do with something else?
Could you get it from a place you know that is not buying retail? And I just, I really like that. I think it's a very handy little guide and kind of like stop and question. Does it have to be brand new?
Angie: Yeah, because that's the point. This is about being more intentional, right? Because I mean like an impulse. Just sort the opposite of that, right? It's a thing that we
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: we just do it. We get into this, this habit and this is an invitation to pause, to reflect
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: Yeah. I love the, the [00:30:00] acronym too. Really great ideas
Rachel Duncan: think it's very handy.
Angie: yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Another thing she introduces in the first week and really encourages us to carry on the whole time is tracking triggers. And you brought that up, right? Like. You know, hey, if it's 10:00 PM and I'm on and I'm doom scrolling, like that's a trigger for me to start buying stuff. Or if I've had a bad day at work or, you know, what, whatever it might be.
You know, kids have the day off from school, you know, there's lots of things on holidays. So you could be, the trigger could be something about your mood. It could be something about the outside world, you know, again, it's a little, it could be a little of that looking ahead, like, oh wow. When it comes to say Christmas, I'm really triggered into, .
You know, spending more than I intend to. So let's like note that, or certain experiences that you might have throughout the day. And she says, you know, you track them. It's just like a mindful curiosity. Review your triggers with compassion and curiosity and celebrate yourself. So I, I love that. It's kind of like it starts off on day five, but that's really a beautiful thing to track [00:31:00] throughout the challenge because like this also just has a ripple effect into your mental health in general, doesn't it?
Angie: Yeah. Oh, if you are somebody who does some impulse shopping, there might be some other areas in your life where your impulses are also driving your behaviors, right? At least I find that true for myself. I should use the
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: self language here. I find, I'm impulsive in a lot of different ways. So,
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: I really appreciate the invitation to slow down.
Rachel Duncan: Yep.
Angie: And that's only the first week, right?
Rachel Duncan: Dude, it's like so much.
Angie: There's so much
Rachel Duncan: know. I mean, if, if anything, if anyone just wants to do the first week, like so much will happen. But yeah. Let's like, yeah. Anything you wanna say? Like, looking ahead?
Angie: okay. So. Week two, she gets into slashing subscriptions. And this
Rachel Duncan: Mm.
Angie: too of like in the Get Your Money Organized challenge, that's one of the first things you invite folks to do, right? Look at your subscriptions. It's such an easy way [00:32:00] look at. where your money's going to just pause and ask yourself, do I really need all of these things that I've subscribed to? And what's really interesting is the ways in which subscriptions have become cornerstone of a lot
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: our purchasing. So I, you know, I think for example, about going to get a car wash, I don't know if community is full of car washes, but our community has so many of those car washes, and every time I go, the invitation is to sign up for a subscription, right?
And for this much per month. XY number of car washes. And I did actually get a subscription the first time I went it was really hard to cancel it, Rachel. I think I had to,
Rachel Duncan: Hmm.
Angie: I had to find a number and then call it and sit on the phone for about 15 minutes before a human came on so I could cancel it.
And then of course it was like, sure you wanna do this? and for those of us who are very [00:33:00] conflict avoidant, right, like the last thing you wanna do have to tell another human
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: being that you don't want the thing that they're selling you. So yeah, that's, I think, one of those, that's some low hanging fruit, right?
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: looking at subscriptions and just cutting out the ones you don't
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Angie: need anymore.
Rachel Duncan: And it takes some, you know what I would call like the boring financial self-care stuff. You know, I think probably all of us, I know I do, at least every week, there's something like that, some dreaded email or a phone call to make that has to do with your money and, and we all need to do it.
Like it's sort of, regardless of how much money you have. We all need to kind of maintain it in this way and yeah. Oh, it's so crappy. I think I mentioned on the subscriptions episode of the podcast, you know, there is some legislation out there where companies, if they offer a subscription, they have to make it as easy to sign off as it is to sign on.
So hopefully if anyone notices, things like that, like that car wash. It's probably outta compliance if they're still doing that. Right. It's like, well, it was a lot [00:34:00] easier to sign up for that than get off of it. So I don't quite know your course of action on that. I'll, I'll look it up but this is like consumer protection rights stuff, you know, because it can, I think it can be really predatory.
Let's see. Ah, I'm excited about day 14. Ethically offload. This gives me a lot of anxiety of like, okay, I wanna get rid of things. How can I do it in a way that is less likely to go in the landfill and could like actually help someone else out? There are some things that also just are gonna go in the landfill and, ah, it's such a crappy feeling and I spend a lot of time, you know, sourcing that.
And then it slows down the process because I wanna be. Ethical about it. So I, in honestly, I have not read that chapter. I'm just reading the titles of the chapters.
Angie: I'm, I'm gonna say something real quick. I have been land filling a lot of stuff this past month
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: And I'm somebody who yeah, cares very much about ethically offloading. I ran a compost community composting company [00:35:00] for a hot minute, but I realized about a month ago that my commitment to composting and recycling and all of that stuff was starting to really drag on me, and so I said
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: I'm just gonna give myself permission for a month to landfill more things. I've cleared out some clutter, but I have found too, like, oh, I really like, it is important to me. So I'm like,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: bring out my compost bucket again and we're gonna start composting. So, you know, I just wanna say to folks, like, if you're one of those people who sometimes feels bogged down by that, give yourself permission to take a little break and then return
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: to the practice. You know, because listen there are so many problems with our climate right now. taking a little break for your mental health or, or whatever, depending on the season of your life is totally fine. You can do that
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, especially compared to like hospital waste or industrial waste. I mean, I'm sure that home waste [00:36:00] is a slice of that pie, but it's a pretty small slice of the pie when you compare to everything else, and I think. You know, there's a lot out there in terms of greenwashing and people, oh, I'm gonna reduce my carbon footprint.
This is not something on an individual level that's gonna make much of a difference. It will make a difference on an industry-wide level. So do what you can. And we live in kind of a broken system when it comes to our stuff.
Angie: And going upstream and stopping the purchase is gonna be more effective than composting
Rachel Duncan: there you go.
Angie: it, right? Like go through your fridge before
Rachel Duncan: Yes.
Angie: you make your grocery list.
Rachel Duncan: Exactly, exactly. So I'm looking forward to that part of it. And you know, I think, I do think we run the risk in this book of being so aware and being so riddled with guilt. Right. Like, oh, now I know that I'm a consumerist and I buy too much stuff, or I have too much stuff and then I can't offload it.
And it's all like really tough. And actually, there was a, a member of our club recommended this book Who, and she had read it some time ago and felt like there was a lot of good [00:37:00] stuff in it. And also feeling incredibly guilty for
Angie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: a lot of like, of consumers behavior or, Hey, there are just some things I'm gonna buy new.
I have limits about what I will buy secondhand and I think there's, we can all invite ourselves to have a maybe a bit more of a range of what this looks like for us on an individual level, because these are huge systemic things.
Angie: Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, so lots of reflection. I love her reflection questions. Oh my gosh. She has another kind of bonus tip, which is to keep a log of the money you don't spend and that that can also be really motivating. So that's kind of a fun thing.
Angie: Rachel, my favorite thing to do when I'm at the store is to like take things out of my shopping cart and then tell myself I just saved like a hundred dollars. I'm amazing.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, I'm making money over here.
Angie: Totally. Oh,
Rachel Duncan: Right?
Angie: I'm gonna go to Starbucks and celebrate.
Rachel Duncan: Exactly. I mean that that is the thing. It's interesting. It's like, okay, what will you [00:38:00] do? I don't know if she asks this, but I would ask this as your friendly neighborhood financial therapist, let's say you do 30 days of this and you have more money in your account at the end, what will that be like for you?
Right. Is, is there gonna be part of you that is then gonna itch to spend it? It's another looking ahead thing, right? Is there maybe a bucket I can put that in? Is there something that's a midterm goal or longer term goal for that to go into? I would, you know, encourage all of us if you ha you know, likely you're gonna have a little more money on hand.
Right? And think now maybe like $50 goes to debt, $50 goes to emergency fund, or you know, 10% fun money. You know, I, I would just encourage you all to think a little ahead about what you'll do with having smart money because it could stimulate that shopping muscle again. Yeah. Just depending, but it can feel great.
Yeah. So she's got nice, like at the end of each week. Really nice reflection prompts. You know, did last [00:39:00] week go smoothly or not? Right? Just like some reflection. It's okay. Are there days or action items that were more difficult, more successful for you? You know, what do you think you would hang on to?
What have you learned about yourself? I mean, these are like gorgeous questions. That's not, you know, we're not like Dave Ramsey ourselves into like total guilt. She's got a whole chapter on, on clothes, which I'm excited about. 'Cause I really, I'm super into not buying clothes. Like I think there's a couple members in the club who have committed to not buying new clothing.
That in itself is a huge issue. I dunno if she says this, but did you know, Angie, that textiles is the number two polluter on this planet
Angie: Yes I do.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: Yeah,
Rachel Duncan: It's a huge problem.
Angie: so much plastic in our clothing, which is part of the pollution, but yeah, it's, oh my gosh
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: yeah. Oh, I wanna talk about repairs real quick. 'cause one thing that's super hard is a lot of the things we buy, especially things that were made in the last 10 years, we're made to not be repairable.
[00:40:00] And so we've really got an uphill battle with that and that on top of. Kind of lost, they lost art of repairs. You know, like we don't really know how to repair sewing skills, electronic skills and, and stuff like that. So I just wanna say like, it's, it can be difficult, but a, it's a great still opportunity to get to know that, you know, retired neighbor with a.
Tool shed who's super handy, right? I feel like there's like some super handy person in every community. Our library also has a kinda a maker space and or there's sewing machines, there's tools and they'll teach you how to use it. And that's very cool. And know in Denver there's a tool library, where you can go and rent tools and they have classes and stuff like that.
I'm a real geek about repairing things. I just, I think it feels so good. And just yesterday. My husband, everyone repaired our toaster and it was
Angie: Oh
Rachel Duncan: the whole thing. Take. Yeah. 'cause he's got some soldering skills and kind of knows some basic stuff. A little with electronics granted. So now it will only [00:41:00] toast and there's no air fryer option, but that's fine.
That's better than no toast.
Angie: yeah.
Rachel Duncan: But it felt so good. It took time though. And that's also like not realistic for everyone. Right? So like another thing, let's not carry a bunch of guilt about it, but if there's an aspect, if you wanna learn something about repairs, I think it's incredibly empowering.
Angie: Yes. Well, and I'm gonna say sometimes the repair is simpler than you think. So.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Yeah.
Angie: last week I was baking bread. I like to bake sourdough. I opened the oven door and the handle came off and I was like, well, great. That's it right before the holidays. Now we gotta buy a new oven, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Okay? So my husband, who also was a tinkerer, took a look at it and he is like, it's a bolt. It just needs a bolt. Angie, you can put
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: Home Depot love list of ovens, right? And okay, so to be fair. I was glad that we just saved $800 or a thousand dollars, also I was a little
Rachel Duncan: glad to,
Angie: bit, I was a little bit bummed, like, I actually do wanna replace [00:42:00] this old stove that came with the house.
So now, okay, so then that's an invitation for me to think about that, right? Like,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Angie: what is it that I am looking for? this actually something I need? Would this be a worthwhile purchase? How could I save up for it? Right? So part of what I think I've really gained through Money Healing Club, I just keep making plugs for the club.
Rachel Duncan: It's actually great. No, you can keep doing it.
Angie: but I really do feel like I am overall being a lot more thoughtful about how I'm using my money. And
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: my mantra this season has been, well, I'm protecting my treasure, I'm protecting my, my money.
Rachel Duncan: Yes.
Angie: really, yeah, just being more thoughtful and intentional and that has felt so good in general.
So, yeah. Thanks Rachel.
Rachel Duncan: Thank you for sharing that. Oh my God. Any time I feel like every, every new book I read or conversation with a client, it brings me a step closer to myself, but like, yeah, this is [00:43:00] what this is really about, you know? So yeah. Ugh. And if, you know, if anyone has not experienced the feeling of walking out of a store empty handed.
It's a rush. It can feel uncomfortable, and it's incredibly empowering. Like, this is my money and I have a choice here. And this is actually all about consent. Do you consent to this purchase or not? You know, I feel really embodied to be in there. And then when you do make that conscious choice to buy something or however you're gonna go about it, we wanted to feel as aligned as possible.
It just does so much. Yeah. Ripple effect, mental health, finances, environment, all of it. And I think it can really be community building. She talks about community a lot and, you're not in this alone. So yeah, open invitation, check out club offerings and if you wanna link arms with other folks who are really looking at the emotional side of spending, we, we got you covered.
Well, thank you so much, Angie, for bringing the inside of the club to the outside on the pod, and I think overall I'm recommending this book, I feel [00:44:00] like we're giving it two thumbs up.
Angie: Oh yeah, totally. I'm already recommending it.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Angie: I know somebody who's been door dashing recently because their impulse spending got out of control and I was like, can I invite you to just think about your impulse shopping? Read this book.
Rachel Duncan: Yes, yes. I actually asked a friend who has kids older than me if she would consider setting aside clothes for my kids. And, not only that, I said, because I'm reading No New Things. And she was like, oh, that's so cool. Absolutely. That's really aligned with me.
And now that friendship, it has like another connection and, and I let her know about the book. Share if you're reading it, like, don't have the cover on man. I mean like leave the cover out, like let people know that you're reading it and, and I really, I think we can start something here.
Yeah.
Angie: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: thanks for being on the pod and sharing about your process. Thanks, Angie.
Angie: It's always a pleasure. Right. Take care. Bye.
Rachel Duncan: Bye.
Thanks for listening to the Money Healing Club [00:45:00] podcast. You can find resources, links, everything from this episode in the show notes below, or at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, you probably really love my free email course on curbing impulse spending with compassion and mindfulness, you can check it out moneyhealingclub.com/challenge.
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