S2 E47:🪞How Your Money Work is Boundary Work w/ Natalie Lue
EPISODE SUMMARY
Every time you've crossed your own budget, broken your spending plan, or said yes to something you couldn't afford, it might not have been about willpower at all. It might have been about boundaries.
In this season two finale of the Money Healing Club podcast, Rachel welcomes Natalie Lue, writer behind Baggage Reclaim, host of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions podcast, and author of The Joy of Saying No and her newest, How to Say No: The Scripts. Nat has spent years helping people rethink codependency, people-pleasing, and emotional unavailability. Together, they apply all of it to money: how our relationship with money can be similar to the relationship we have with our parents & how splitting the bill becomes a boundary minefield.
"What you say yes to, you're saying no to something else. And vice versa." Nat Lue
Key Takeaways:
Codependency with money looks like trying to please it, fearing it, or feeling controlled by it. The healthier alternative is interdependence
We often relate to money the way we were related to as kids: dismissive when things are bad, only courteous when things are good
A no doesn't have to be Armageddon. Most of the time it's "no, not right now" or "no, not this way"
A clear no often holds space for a yes ("this won't work, but this might"), which keeps connection intact
Boundaries are about what you'll do, not what others must do. You take responsibility for your side of the street
Asking "what's your budget?" can unlock more money and more clarity than naming a price first
People over-personalize others' nos. Get curious instead of making it about you
Speaking up about money benefits everyone. Your honesty often gives someone else permission to be honest too
About Natalie Lue: Natalie is the writer behind Baggage Reclaim, host of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions podcast (with over 300 episodes), and author of six books including The Joy of Saying No and How to Say No: The Scripts. For over two decades, she's helped millions of people rethink codependency, emotional unavailability, and what it actually looks like to live from values and boundaries. She's also a past Money Healing Club guest favorite, and one of Rachel's go-to teachers on this stuff.
⏰ EPISODE BREAKDOWN
04:00 | Money as Your Parent How codependency shows up in your wallet, and why so many of us treat money like a parent we're trying to please.
13:00 | When You Treat Money Worse Than Anyone Else in Your Life The shadow side of your money relationship and why the shame keeps it stuck.
21:00 | The Six Magic Words for Saying No "No, not right now" or "no, not this way." Plus how to leave space for a yes without people-pleasing your way back into yes.
28:00 | Bills, Weddings, and Restaurant Math Splitting the check, "pick your brain" emails, wedding guest costs, and the boundary scripts Nat actually uses.
💌 Connect with Natalie Lue
🌐 Website & shop: baggagereclaim.com
🎙️ Podcast: The Baggage Reclaim Sessions
📱 Instagram: @natlue
📚 Resources Mentioned
💬 Join the Conversation
Where do you struggle most with money boundaries? Splitting the bill, family loans, "pick your brain" requests, weddings? I want to hear about it.
Click the big orange button on our site right from your phone or browser and leave me a voice message:https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
💝 Support the Podcast
Help keep the Money Healing Club podcast going! If this show has helped you feel less alone or more grounded with money, please consider contributing:https://buy.stripe.com/4gMdRb3Nc9ZKfpM2MQd7q0b
🎧 Your next listen:
If boundary work has you thinking about your own reactivity around money, head to How to Stop Reacting and Start Responding (Especially with Your Money).
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🪞 How Your Money Work is Boundary Work w/ Natalie Lue
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[00:00:00]
Rachel Duncan: Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist. You've come to the softest place to land in personal finance, although today I'll tease that we're getting into a charged topic. Just a reminder, this podcast is for entertainment and educational purposes only.
It does not replace mental health care or financial advising. Before we dive in, it's time for a little celebration. This is the final episode of season two of the Money Healing Club podcast. We're taking a short month-long pause, and we will be back in June with new conversations, listener voicemails, and just, you know, me on my philosophy of money healing.
I'm also returning with a beautiful new online home and brand refresh I cannot wait for you to see. If you like retro office supplies, you will swoon over the new look at moneyhealingclub.com. I'm obsessed, [00:01:00] and I want to thank the team, incredible team over at authenticaudience.co for their brand guidance.
I'm also reopening the basic membership after a pause to rethink it. So if you would like a place, an affordable place to learn how to become better friends with your money, please come check it out and the new vibe at moneyhealingclub.com.
Okay, so here's the juice of the episode. I think my biggest personal frontier, the one that has taken the most work for me and has led me to the most growth, is boundaries. I see boundary issues come up every day with my clients and students, and especially when it comes to money.
I'd even go as far to say that money work is boundary work, full stop. Like, if we reframe impulse spending as a boundary-crossing issue, it really explains that out-of-control feeling we have and why it hurts us to cross our own boundaries. So it's not about breaking the budget, it's about breaking your own trust.
Oof. And I [00:02:00] can't imagine a better guest to close out the season with than Nat Lue. Nat is the writer behind the blog Baggage Reclaim, host of the Baggage Reclaim Sessions podcast, where I was a guest a few years ago, and author of six books, including her latest, "The Joy of Saying No". I highly recommend Nat's book, and we talk about it today.
That link is in the show notes. Nat is just an expert in the world of boundaries. She has helped millions of people rethink emotional unavailability, codependency, and what it means to live from values and boundaries even when it's really uncomfortable. And in this conversation, we explore something I say all the time, money work is boundary work.
So with boundaries, we're talking about people pleasing, codependency, financial anxiety, all the stories about where you end and I begin, these beliefs that we've all carried for years, but applied to the context of money. And when it comes down to it, Nat and I [00:03:00] unpack how healing your relationship with money probably begins with learning to say no more often. Mm. But in a good way, not in a restrictive way. So let's talk about what we don't usually say when we talk about boundaries with Nat Lue.
Rachel Duncan: Nat Lue thank you for coming to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm really happy you're here.
Natalie Lue: I am very excited to be here. I love chatting with you.
Rachel Duncan: Well, the, the feeling is just mutual. Well, this is so great because we are here to talk about, well, you really are the expert on boundaries and relationships and all of this stuff. And I, I feel, for me, boundaries are my final frontier, you know, as a therapist. I feel like I probably went into the work because I came from a family system that had very diffuse boundaries and, it's the most difficult thing for me and.
The place of the most personal growth I've had and professional. So I just appreciate having an expert who's spent so much time thinking about it. And every time I see your [00:04:00] content, it helps me uplevel a little bit with boundaries. So I'm really glad you're here and okay. But we're also gonna talk about boundaries and money because I've said many times money work is boundary work when it comes to it.
Natalie Lue: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: Let's, let's talk about, tell me about how codependency. Shows up in our relationships with money and codependency. Also, if you could define it, that would be very helpful.
Natalie Lue: So I think when we, when we think about codependency, it's that really not being able to distinguish ourselves from others, you know, not being able to see where we end and others begin being excess excessively, emotionally reliant on others. Still being in that sort of sense of, um, I'm in this child role, I have to obey.
I've gotta basically go along to get along. And so you're sort of in sync or so you think with other people's, uh, movements, but something's the boss of you and you are, you're sort of [00:05:00] fitting around that and then that drives everything you are doing or not doing, and you don't really get to have a self as a result.
And I started thinking about codependency and money. Because, um, my dad died in, uh, uh, March, 2017. And no joke, like the week after he died, I was getting ready to basically send, uh, a newsletter, you know, to, you know, subscribers basically saying, Hey, my dad's died, not gonna be around for a while. And I remember saying in that, in that email about how did it hit me that the way that I feel.
Around money reminds me of my relationship with my parents.
Rachel Duncan: Hmm.
Natalie Lue: Um, that when, uh, when, when things were good, so work was going well, money was going well, it's like, I'm not that kid who's [00:06:00] like, he, he, he, I've pleased my parents and when, uh, things weren't, it was like, what did I do wrong? Disappointed money. And what was so interesting is then when I talk out loud about these feelings of like money is your parent work.
Is your parent that you are pleasing money or displeasing it or pleasing work or displeasing it? And obviously work and money are intertwined because we typically work for money. Um, people go, oh my gosh. Like, that's me. Like we experience so much anxiety around money and often kind of struggle again to see where we end and the money begins.
We become excessively, emotionally reliant on money to, to validate us, to make us feel like we're worthy, like we're human.
Rachel Duncan: I think it's also like, yeah, I, I love what you're saying. It's this race for control, right? Oh, it's making me feel that way, or I need to [00:07:00] control it. And sometimes we get in this binary thinking, right? Like. Like with relationships, you're making me feel that way. Or I'm an island and, and those are both extremes as opposed to like the, the, the healing process is getting to a more even relating.
Like, yes, there are external things with money. There are systems, there's banking, there's your job. There absolutely are external things and there's, we have an internal system with money and our personal finances, so it's very dimensional rather than, it makes me do that. It's the bad guy. It's the.
Punishing parent that I can't please. That's very much like I would see as like a black and white external type of relationship. And it's, um, I just feel like it's a lot more fleshed out than that. Would you say,
Natalie Lue: Yeah, absolutely. And if we think about like this codependency versus for instance, interdependence,
which is the sense of like where. [00:08:00] Um, we have a sense of self. We can differentiate between ourselves and others. We can depend on others without losing ourselves in the process. Whereas codependency, which can manifest as like.
Basically, yes, the self abandonment, but it's like, I'm just gonna like hyper depend on everyone else, and it's like, not really take any responsibility, but codependency can also manifest as, as you say, the hyper independence, where it's like, I don't need anyone. I'm like, fearful. I've got this like guard of, and it's still codependency because it's the sense of like this relational sense of I'm under threat.
You know, I'm, I'm having my, my, my feelings and my everything controlled by my sense of, oh my god. I have to like basically try to be in control in this way. And so, you know, how we do something is how we do other things and we're in relationship with everything. And so when, how we relate to money, it just really echoes.[00:09:00]
The way that we are relating in another, uh, dysfunction. 'cause I've also heard from people who said, well, yeah, okay, I could see my parents in there, but actually I can see like how I feel around money, the way that I have around every guy I've dated.
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Natalie Lue: And the chasing, like trying to please, but then feeling unworthy and then trying really hard.
Um, and, and this, this sense of fit punitive, but it, this is all like a thing that's actually said. It's paying out internally with us. Like money is not actually. Like going, you are not good enough
Rachel Duncan: Right? I mean, the fact is like sometimes they say, oh, of course money is emotional. But really I should clarify that money's not emotional. You are. We're emotional beings. Money's not emotional, but we like, because of the way our brains work, we are associating all sorts of meaning and relating 'cause that's how our brains work.
Money's neutral. We are the emotional ones. And that's not a bad thing, right? Like most financial decisions have a strong emotional component and that is normal and [00:10:00] natural. But it's this feeling of, um, am I integrated? Like you said, like this interdependence, we are interdependent with money. Of course.
And you know, I'm, there's another example actually. You talk about how, you know, some people feel like they relate to their money, like it's their parents or a lover, or how, this is how my toxic relationships are. And another aspect I see in my work is people saying, oh, I don't relate to anyone like I do with money.
That's why it's so shameful, like. I treat money terribly and I don't do that anywhere else. And that's why it feels really gross. So sometimes there can be like this dissonance, like, I'm not like how I am with money with anyone else, and that's why it feels gross and I can't talk about it. You know, where there's sometimes like this, um, it doesn't quite fit with the rest of how you see yourself.
Natalie Lue: it's so funny that you say that because, uh. Uh, I was having a chat with our mutual friend Amelia, which is how I came across your [00:11:00] work. And um, so she was like doing like this 20 minute chat thing as part of her interweb thing, uh, like it's like the me membership thing she has. And so we had like 20 minutes and I am not kidding you, about like 11 minutes into the conversation.
And of course the first bit we were just like chatting, sort of catching up. And then I had this realization. So when you were saying that, I was like, oh my gosh, that's, that's it. There again. And as much as I had felt that I, that money had felt like a parent, when I started looking at how I was actually relating, uh, to money and even to work, I realized that, like you said, I treated it in a way that I don't treat anyone else in my life, but also.
I treated it in a way, the way that like I was treated by my parents, so, um, it's like, oh, things aren't going [00:12:00] well, imperfect. don't wanna have anything to do with you. You were disappointments, you failed. And it was so funny to be having this conversation with her and then being like, oh my gosh, like, where the hell did that come from?
Because I'd, I had been seeing it as like, oh, like those feelings that it brings up in me. But when I looked at my actual, like nitty gritties of my relationship with money and work, I realized that there is an aspect of it where I am related that to that, as you said, in a way that I don't relate to anyone else.
In my life. Um, and there was definitely this component of, oh yeah, I'm kind of being dismissive of it, you know, uh, I am, I'm not courteous, uh, with it. There isn't that like, and it was, it was such an eye-opening thing that it's like, oh, I've gotta change this
Rachel Duncan: Right. Wow. That is like, that is next level. And I do just want a quick shout out to Amelia Hruby and the Off the Grid [00:13:00] podcast. Everybody check it out. Um, oh, so good. Yeah. It's this next level. Not only am I not like this with everyone else, but like there, there's a, you know, we could even say there's a little shadow element here.
There's a thing here that I don't like about myself, right? Something old, something I need to, I need to work on that I've been ignoring. Um, and because money. Is a topic that we don't typically talk about except on this podcast, right? Like, where can I process those feelings that like, I feel like I'm a real, a-hole with money.
Who am I gonna talk to about that? How am I gonna process that when that feels, it's so abstract, but also very like, felt, there's like a real felt sense with that.
Natalie Lue: Yeah, and it's like, like. In anything. And you know, we extrapolate this and look at other things in our lives. We go, if we have something in our life that, where we think about it a lot, but we also kind of have like some shitty feelings around it. And then we're kind of embarrassed sometimes about the way that we, that we think and feel and behave [00:14:00] around that thing like.
We, we can recognize that sometimes, right? Like people sometimes have that relationship with food, for instance, or alcohol or exercise or whatever it might be. And it's like, why does, why does this thing have so much power over us? This internal narrative that ends up playing out this, driving this shame.
Um, and it's so important for us to connect with that. 'cause if we shy away from it. It really pushes it even further into the shadows, which then manifests as more problematic
Rachel Duncan: It shows up at in this way also, that like takes stuff off guard. Like, why did I just do that? Or, whoa, that came outta nowhere, or, wow, I've been avoiding that in a way that doesn't speak to my integrity, you know? Um. Yeah, I recently had, kind of recently had this experience. I switched the budgeting program I used, I switched from you need a budget to Monarch money.
And, [00:15:00] um, it's been a struggle actually, like changing the systems also, like I'm someone, my self concept is I'm good with money and there's been aspect of it. I've been. Avoiding. I've been like, it's felt a little chaotic. I'm like, oh, because guess what? I grew up needing to accept a lot more chaos than I should have.
And I'm just like, in this moment realizing, oh, that was an old thing. I'm like, it's chaos. I can't figure it out. I'm just going to kind of ignore it. Kind of watch it and just be okay with it. 'cause like, oh, that's how that system wants to work. And just a couple days ago I was like. This isn't this, the system isn't working for me.
This is no shade to Monarch. It's about like fit with my brain. So I found that there were some settings I could change in Monarch. I'm like, that's how I need it to be for me. And just a few days ago I did it and everything has calmed down. I feel like I can trust what's on. That app was really interesting for like six months, I kind of let it feel really chaotic.
For longer than I should have. And in a way that [00:16:00] doesn't really work with my integrity now, you know? And I just, I really, I had to sit down and it was sort of like my relationship with the app, my relationship, not so much with money, but how it was being displayed to me, how I was interacting with it, and.
There was this moment of like, I need this to be how my brain works, not how its brain works. And it was this moment of like, interrelating we need this to work for both of us here.
Natalie Lue: Yeah. Of than like, oh, I have to fit into this thing, and because it doesn't feel like it fits what's wrong with
me.
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Natalie Lue: It's like, no, there isn't anything wrong with you. It's like, what do you need? And is this thing capable of meeting you where you are
Rachel Duncan: Right, which is like my advice for everything, right? Like we get these apps in our budget sheets and like, well that worked for that person's brain, whoever made it. You know? And often we do need to customize it. It needs to work for us. And I think so often we look around like, oh, I'm, I'm a person who's not good with money, or that person is good with money 'cause they look like it.
And we make so many of [00:17:00] these assumptions about what being good with money looks like. And it actually is like very personal. And kinda feel like, like it relates a lot to boundaries, right? Like I might set a boundary in a way and you might set the same boundary differently. Um, that actually brings me to, I'd love to talk about your new book, which is fantastic.
Would it be okay if we bridge into that?
Natalie Lue: Yeah.
How to Say No: The Scripts
Rachel Duncan: The script, not only the scripts, but 450 scripts for dating, family and work. Guess what y'all, there's a whole chapter on money, which is where I've pulled a lot of this, but it's an incredible resource and what I really appreciate, Nat is. Is the actual scripts.
Here's some try these around in your mouth. How would it feel to say this? And what I love, it's not just one script. It's like you really cover many examples, many styles, even within money, right? It's like blending with friends, splitting the bill, sharing a gift, [00:18:00] you know, being paid for your work. Like even within the topic of money and boundaries, there's so many aspects and you give like so many.
Ideas in there. I would love to know what was the inspiration for this book. You've written a lot about boundaries. Why? Why did you feel compelled to write a book in this way?
Natalie Lue: So I think that, um, it was really about the practicalities. Of saying no. Like I have spoken to so many people over the years and they're like, I, I, I can't, I can't say no. I just, I just can't figure out how to say it. And it's like, actually, let me find, I was like, okay. How many different ways can I find to say no?
Because I think people often see no as, no. That's one way to say no, but there are so many other ways to say no. Without over apologizing and without making the sky fall down, which is often what we are secretly afraid of. It's like it's gonna be Armageddon when I turn around and [00:19:00] say, no,
Rachel Duncan: I
Natalie Lue: I wanted to give language to situations.
I see people grappling with all the time, and I say from the get go in the book, sure, yeah. You can use these as is. You can also mix and match them, you can tweak them suit. But what I wanted people to come away with is, oh wow, there are so many ways for me to say no, that actually I just need to find a few
that work for me and roll with it where we don't have to keep lying to ourselves that it's impossible to say no.
I think as well like. I've talked a lot about, you know, creating healthier boundaries, you know, the importance of saying no, why we struggle around doing these, you know, why we would grapple, for instance, with, you know, boundary issues around money. At the end of the day, that stuff is important, but people need to weigh in to the [00:20:00] practicalities to make it accessible.
And so that was really the big driver, uh, with making the book,
Rachel Duncan: I love it. And, and as, as a, as a people pleaser, recovering people pleaser myself. One thing I noticed as I was reading the scripts is how would I feel if someone said them to me, right? Like, oh, or someone has said that to me. The person does have good boundaries, right? If someone was like, you know, that's not really in the budget.
Could we do this instead? Like, I've had people in my life, of course, who have said that, and how have I responded? Oh, of course. That makes so much sense, right? Like I think when we afraid, when we're afraid that if we set a boundary at the, as you said, the sky will fall, it'll be a catastrophe. There's this nice experience in reading these scripts of like, well, how would I feel if I.
Heard that and some of them would be like, Ooh, I would, I, I would maybe not love that. That's okay. Right. You can pay attention. Like there's so many styles of a way to set a boundary and often in your examples, I, I really loved that there was a clear no and an opening for a yes. And I think for folks who are coming out of like recovering [00:21:00] people, pleasers, the codependent thing is like, well, I still want the connection though. I don't want the no. To mean I'm rejecting connection, rejecting love. And so many of your examples are like, this isn't gonna work for me, but this will on, on some of them if that's the case for you.
Natalie Lue: Yeah,
Rachel Duncan: yeah. So wait, I have an example. Wait. I pulled, I pulled some of my favorites. I pulled some of my favorites.
Let me see. Right number 59. Thank you so much for asking. I'd love to support you, but it's just not within my budget to take part right now. Right. It's not a no, it's a no. And I still wanna be with you in a different way. That would work for me. You know, for me, those really resonate and I'm, I'm wondering how do you think about like, you know, embedding maybe a yes or, or an aspect of possibility in these boundaries?
Natalie Lue: I love that you talked about how you thought of, how would I feel [00:22:00] if someone said this to me? Uh, and and realizing, oh, actually that'd be okay. Or some of them yes, you would feel uncomfortable, but also realizing that actually you had heard some of these. From other people and your relationship with those people was fine because a, a lot of this is by giving ourselves permission to say and do things that, uh, uh, uh, other people are already doing that we are already encountering, but we're blocking ourselves with.
And part of, um, look, there were instances where it's just a straight up no. So, uh, you know, an example I give, um. In the book is about, and I think this is in the chapter around, uh, sort of compromises and alternatives is about how look. Actually, sometimes there can be, you know, an alternative, but don't suggest one.
Actually, if you are really flat out, don't wanna do it because there are a lot of people who suggest alternatives just because they think it's what they're supposed to do. And one of the classic examples I [00:23:00] give around this is like, let's say, uh, you're, you're the person you're dating is like, oh, let's do a threesome.
And you don't wanna do a threesome. Um, but you are like so afraid of like outright saying, I don't wanna do a threesome. That you say, okay, well let's go and do, and you come up with this other sexual act that you also don't want to do. That's not a great alternative. It's not a necessary yes. It's not a, it's not a great compromise.
And um, what I see a lot with people is they see no as rejection. And like, oh, I'm gonna be creating a problem. And I always stress, like when you're saying no, unless obviously it's like, oh, this is what it means, like as a, no, not ever. A lot of the time we're saying, no, not right now,
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm. You say it's the six magic words. Natalie, let's see. You say, um, let me get back to you the six magic words.
Natalie Lue: Yeah. It's like, no, not right now, or no, not this way. And so yes, it was important [00:24:00] to, to have the no and the yes, because I always talk about how yes and no are related. They're just the inverse of each other. Of each other. So what you say yes to, you're saying no to something else. Vice versa. And it's like actually it's, we're engaging in a bit more critical thinking when we, when we are declining something, we can be, we can.
Be clear about who we are and what our position is, or what we do or we don't wanna do. And we can also be like, yeah, but I'd be open to this, or I can do this, or whatever. And it just, I find a lot of people blindly say yes without asking enough questions, without checking in with themselves. Whereas actually, if they do check in with themselves and they do ask enough questions that there is a possibility for yes as well.
Like it doesn't have to just be a flat no.
Rachel Duncan: Absolutely. So I'd love to share an example. This was inspired by knowing that our talk was coming up. I would, I received an email from someone who has a startup. I get a lot of these emails from financial startups. I love you all, [00:25:00] but it was one of those pick your brain conversations, which you have a whole chapter.
And I've learned the hard way. You know, I've even thought that some of these pick your brain things was, um, they were interested in hiring me or bringing me on board, and that was even like in the subtext. So, um, where I have given away a lot of free advice, I didn't mean to, 'cause I didn't understand the situation.
So I recently received one of these well-intended, but let me tell you how I wrote back. And this is inspired by you. I said. So nice to hear from you. Thank you for reaching out. Are you looking to set up a consulting agreement? I have learned the hard way to formalize and remunerate my feedback to new companies.
Let me know a little about the scope and I can put a proposal together. Warmly Rachel. Now I did a little bit of explaining there, which I'm probably didn't need to do, but I needed to do it for myself. Also, I hope is a learning opportunity for this person. You can't just get like, ask for free advice from everybody.
I haven't heard back yet, but that, that felt so good to me. [00:26:00] And I, and I think a couple years ago that would've been really impossible for me to write. And this was like, yeah, I'm not, I, I have learned the hard way and I'm just gonna set this, that my consultation is valuable. And if they wanna set up a formal agreement, I'm all for that.
Right? No. And yes. Around money.
Natalie Lue: I love the growth in this, and it's invaluable really what you're sharing there, because I think that. Um, it's so easy to receive emails like this or requests like this where there is that subtext, that hint of something and be so flattered and be like, oh, well this could lead to an opportunity 'cause this is what we're always doing to ourselves.
This could lead to an opportunity. And if I don't say yes to this, then I will cut myself off from other opportunities except for then when we look at the graveyard of these many conversations and emails and whatnot, we realize. How many times have I basically deceived myself into having these conversations when [00:27:00] actually I could have straight up asked, you know, is this a consultation?
Whatever it might be. Like, I had, uh, someone, uh, reach out to me and they were like, ask me all sorts. Yeah, we would love to, love to talk to you about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as soon as I turned around and said, oh, well, you know about consult, you know, consultancy. They were like. Well, we've just kind of seen it as I was like,
Okay.
well that's fine, but I'm not gonna do that.
Why have you picked me as the person that you are gonna try to pick my brain for free? Because there are other people that, that they're paying. Something else I found myself doing as well is, um, you know, when people reach out and they're like, oh, I want you to do this thing. Can you tell me what your rate is?
And what I actually took to doing was, um. We are replying and saying, you know, whatever in the email, but then saying, what's your budget?
Rachel Duncan: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Lue: And my reason for this [00:28:00] is because actually what can happen in these situations is you pluck your, your price out, you sit there stressing or whatever about it, and uh, you might actually pitching yourself too low.
And some of these companies are actually counting on this. But there's also obviously instances where you could be way out instead. It's like, why are you reaching out to me, to talk to me about hiring me for something, but you're not actually basically talking to me about budget? And it'd be a lot easier for us to have this conversation if we both know what we're, what we're talking about here.
This has made such a difference and has, and, uh, in some instances has made me far more money than I would've, um, actually asked for. So it, there's this, it's so important to be clear on what we need to say no to. Like actually, you don't have the bandwidth. To be doing all of this free consultancy work for, for these startups, and believe me when I say they are paying
some people
Rachel Duncan: and that is what I've learned the hard way. Yeah. They are paying consultants and I think people [00:29:00] like you and me who like our profession is. I mean you, I know you're a writer, but you also do, you know, coaching and consultation and teaching where like our work is the being with, it's less of a tangible product.
And so then I think we're seen as, I think it both like values our work and devalues our work at the same time, where it's like, well, it's just your thoughts and your being with. It's like, well, no, that, that is the product. That's actually the product. My attention is the product. Um, and that there's a ton of value there.
Okay, well I love this. I have learned that in the next time, and so I'm like at medium level, next level I'll ask for their budget. Thank you for that. I will do that.
Natalie Lue: And. Know the, the thing as well there for anybody else who's thinking, oh yeah, like I can relate to that thing of like, like I am, like my attention is the product. It's like there are things that you and I can very quickly hone in on that we have all these different understandings of that can maybe take us a matter of [00:30:00] minutes or certainly within a relatively short period of time that somebody else is gonna find really, like it will take them a long time to arrive at that.
We have much to offer. We need to value that just because we're not sitting there going, oh, here is the, here is the product. A physical thing doesn't make our expertise or what we have to share. Any less, any less
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Like when something's easy for us, that usually means it's a strength and has a ton of value. Absolutely. I've, I have also, I've come to learn that the hard way. I really appreciate that. So I, I have a question for you. You use a word that I think is colloquial and I'd love for you to tell me more. So, one of the scripts you offer in the money chapter of your book is, I'm brassic No. Can do I call this my Irish money? No. I don't know what brassic means. Can you tell us.
Natalie Lue: Oh, it's, it's like, when you've got no money, it's like I am like, I'm dried out fresh outta money, you know, haven't got anything sort of happening [00:31:00] moneywise at all. It's like I'm, uh, like struggling at the
Rachel Duncan: broke, like we would say I am
Natalie Lue: Yeah. Broke.
There's the word broke.
Yeah It's menopause for you where I'm flailing around with words.
Rachel Duncan: So it's a, it's an Irish, Irish word. I'm brassic Just saying that. 'cause people just know what that means, right? Like we would say, yeah, I'm just broke right now.
Natalie Lue: Yeah. You know, sometimes you forget that sometimes when you're, when you're, when you're saying stuff, it's like, oh, actually, like there, that's like a Irish colloquialism,
Rachel Duncan: I love that. That's so great. So I was looking through your scripts and there seemed to be some kind of categories, right? You've got, um, restaurants with friends and family. You've got charity. Lending, gifting. You have a whole section on weddings, which I really think is great. Kids work and retailers is, I think, like the categories.
So, um, I'm wondering if, if there's some aspects of these that, um. I mean, obviously it's personal. Probably comes up from talking with lots of people. Um, let's, let's talk about, I think the classic one, 'cause I, I [00:32:00] talk about this all the time, comes up a lot, um, in my work is the restaurant is the splitting the bill.
And you have a lot of options in there.
Natalie Lue: Oh gosh. Oh gosh. I had to be in there because, uh, I have ex, I went for a phase where I used to go out, like with, um, it was when the girls would've been in primary school, but we used to go out like with the mom.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Natalie Lue: We go out for like this meal and Oh, sweet Jesus. Like it was so painful, um, with splitting the bills and sometimes like the tallying up, like one person wanting to, I was like, I can't be doing with this.
But I also recognized that that was my position, but that other people have theirs and I think that we have to have some clarity. Like one of the ones, I think one of the scripts that I put in there was about. When you have that one person who is like, actually like, I don't want to split the bill, and they're kind of like getting into a whole thing over it, it's like, right, [00:33:00] you know that that is essentially your position that you've taken, so you need to basically make sure that you get you total up yours.
And then let everybody else figure out their thing. 'cause sometimes what happens is you've got that one person and then they can say to everybody else, oh, actually no, everybody should work out each of their items. It's like, but you are the one who wants to do that. That's fine. Why are you forcing the other 10, 15, or however many people to do that?
But I find that there is just a lot of so much discomfort around eating out, whether it's with family, whether it's with friends, whether it's with work, and you can find yourself spending more money. Than you intended, um, sort of being landed with a bill that you didn't expect. Um, and so we have to, we have to know where to speak up.
Otherwise, if we kind of hold onto that discomfort and, and sort of push on through, we can end up feeling very
resentful and also
Rachel Duncan: Yeah, that was the word I was thinking. Just resentment, right? Like, oh, they always get two drinks, you know, and I [00:34:00] don't, or, or whatever. And, and yeah, that can be so difficult. Also, like the choice of restaurant, like there's so much going on there. Um, so much class signaling. And restaurants are flat out really expensive right now.
I don't know what, like everything since the pandemic has just ballooned in price. I mean eating out has always been expensive, but it is really extra. Yet you give some really nice options also if like you're the kind of person who wants to total up and be that kind of thing. I think one part of boundaries is saying what I will do.
Like a aspect of. boundary is not saying what you all will do, you're saying what I will and won't do. so if you are the kind of person who does wanna like, you know, that's important to make it, you know, quote unquote fair, then you take on that responsibility or you, you know, you take on that labor or suggesting to the waiter, Hey, could we have separate bills or whatever.
'cause usually that's pretty easy these days. You know, I think what's tricky is we think setting a boundary means we're saying what everyone else should do, but really it has to be what. You will do well. You take responsibility for this boundary, um, and not make it other people's work.
Natalie Lue: [00:35:00] That's, that's so true because, um, I think one of the barriers that people have around, for instance, saying no, but also, you know, boundaries isn't just about saying no, it's about, you know, expressing what doesn't, what does and doesn't work for us, expressing our preferences limits. What our capacity is.
And one of the barriers around this is always like the sense of, oh well, like boundaries are about telling people what to do. And it's like, no, I always say the boundaries are twofold. So when you know, it's often we are thinking about, oh, well I want this person to do whatever, but even if you know that, what is it actually on your side of the street that you need to be doing rather than trying to, as you say, control the whole setting.
It's like, it is so easy to even have a quiet word with a waiter and say, oh, hey, actually I wanna have a separate bill. Or, you know exactly what you ordered. You go over and you say, Hey, here's my card. Please take X amount of money, you know, off the bill. And then everybody else is left to go and sort it out.
Like there was just so many ways around it without having [00:36:00] to have like this so tedious, you know, awkward conversations around it.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Yeah. There's so many ways to do it and I, I love all of the examples in the book. Like here's a lot of different ways to approach that situation. Okay. Now, it's been a while, so I got married like 12 years ago, but you have a lot in there about weddings. And
Natalie Lue: Mm
Rachel Duncan: tell me what you see play out with folks who are planning a wedding, going through weddings.
It's guests, it's gifts, it's family stuff. Um, yeah. Can we land on weddings for a little bit and how that shows up with money. And boundaries.
Natalie Lue: So it's funny, we got married, um, 12 and a half years
ago as well, so 2012.
Rachel Duncan: us
Natalie Lue: Yeah, it was when we, when we got married.
Rachel Duncan: Beautiful.
Natalie Lue: Yeah. And, uh, I, I, I learned a lot from our wedding, but also from being involved in other people's weddings, that was so much friction around weddings. Now what I see happening a lot, so from. From the bride and groom side of things, they [00:37:00] can, I, I get it. Like they have a sense of, oh, this is what we're doing. This is the day we're having, but sometimes there isn't enough thought into the financial implications for, for guests. And then at the end of the day. It's unrealistic to expect that every single guest anyway can is going to be able to, to make it like every single person that you invite.
But what happens is there can be tension, for instance, with bridesmaids or you know, groomsmen where it's like, right, well these are the things and actually that's your expense. Because sometimes there is the assumption that actually these items are, for instance, the expense of the bride and groom. And if this isn't communicated, people end up with unexpected
bills, you know, same for like, oh, we're getting married at this place and you know, we're in a hotel room. Again, there's often the assumption that it's being paid for, it isn't. And if there just isn't that clear communication, people can end up agreeing, for instance, to be a part of a wedding and being really pleased to do [00:38:00] so, but they're not realizing that they've just agreed to spend what can be hundreds and in some cases, thousands of pounds.
Like I know people who went to a wedding last year, and uh, by the time it was all done, they had spent over 10 grand as guests.
Rachel Duncan: Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Natalie Lue: because that was like overseas and all of that thing. And it's like, so there's, there's a lot in that. So there can be tensions around. As I say, those type of expenses, but there is as well, and you know, uh, we experience this tension around like the number of guests and for instance, family being like, oh, can you like invite this random person?
You've never met or this relative that you haven't seen for ages or in our case, we got landed with a table full of kids four days before the wedding. Even though we'd said that there were only certain kids coming to the wedding. So then we were landed with a bill that was like, I dunno, the equivalent of like $800
bill a few days before the wedding.
So there can be a lot of tension [00:39:00] around, uh, uh, invites, you know, guest numbers, but people not really grasping. That's. Clearly there's a headcount and that, uh, that impacts like when you're starting to add on people willy-nilly, that that creates. A lot of issues, but also you can have then family going, oh, well, in our family we always do a wedding here, or we have this particular thing.
So then other costs can come in as well, where it's about like, oh, well we have to have this element to it, and you have to wear something from here, and it has to be done in this place, and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Or you know, you can have that overseas wedding and that can, in some ways, that can be cheaper than doing it here.
But then of course you have to. Travel to that place, your guests have to travel. Uh, the, the wedding thing has so many financial
components to it,
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Natalie Lue: like so many financial components, and so you can see that the, the bride and groom are stress dives. It can't be, I mean, look, another stress, stress that I've seen is where the [00:40:00] bride and groom, or one of them assumes that, for instance, the parents or whoever are going to, uh, help out.
Like they're gonna cover the cost of the wedding and then. It turns out that they're not, and obviously they've based their
plans. Around all of this, or it's like, oh, like, well, I wanna have all of this stuff. And it's like, well actually this is the limits of what we can do. And it's like, wait, there's a limit to how much money you can give me for my wedding.
There's so much tension, friction, and yeah, sometimes resentment around weddings. And of course you imagine that this is going to be not the happiest day of your life because clearly you wanna have other happy things like happen after, but it's clearly, it's a very
important
event, but. So much pressure, so much money involved and so much competing agendas and narratives around that.
And lots of people get triggered, uh, uh, a around this. And then it can be very, you find that it can blow up because if you try to, for instance, talk about it with the bride and groom, then they can see it [00:41:00] as like, and I had that. So I had that years ago. I mean, probably it's more than 20 years ago, but you know, one of my best pals, you know, I was the bridesmaid just like one expense after another.
And so when I then asked, and yeah, maybe you shouldn't send these things by email when you're kind of feeling a little bit ticked off this is one of my early lessons in, have the conversation face to face. We're over the phone. But, um, I was like, okay look, can I just get a handle on like how many other expenses are gonna be.
Coming through, 'cause I'm gonna have to budget for this, but I, I don't know, in whatever way, it really rubbed her up the wrong way. And we had
words.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Natalie Lue: Um, and then we met up and it was fine and we had that conversation. But it, it was like she had at the time had found it really difficult. She was in Bridey era and everything was rosy and wonderful, but I don't think she realized how. Sending an email going, okay, so I decided that you know, we're gonna do dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, so you're gonna need to buy yourself. How that wasn't gonna necessarily work for everybody, that she hadn't really considered that. It was [00:42:00] just like, you're so grateful to be my bridesmaid, and you're an important part of my day, that it won't be a problem, whatever expenses you throw away.
And I was like, Hmm, yeah, no, that's not
Rachel Duncan: it's that, that that old phrase of clarity is caring and it can be awkward. We can sit with that. Awkwardness that discomfort. Sometimes it's because, like, well in that friendship, we've never talked about money before. Like, this is a frontier that we haven't had to cross before, and now here we are and Right.
All of these old scripts can kick up. And actually, I, I highlighted a phrase in the book that I think is wonderful. You say that desperation and fear cause people to behave unc uncharacteristically. So recognizing this helps you depersonalize. What might be someone's very confusing or inappropriate behavior so you can have the boundaries you need for this situation.
I feel like this is exactly the thing, right? Like my friend wasn't really being her normal self because she was in this stressed thing, she was behaving uncharacteristically. So two things then need to happen. I [00:43:00] can understand that they're behaving uncharacteristically because of their stress and all the more reason for me to pay attention to my boundaries.
So it's holding this both and. Right. I can't change it for them. I can understand though, maybe this isn't so personal, right? They're going through a thing
Natalie Lue: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: and so like I, I wrote down like it's recognizing both intent and impact, which is so important to hold both. I know you didn't intend to have me spend all this money, or I know you didn't intend for this to be awkward.
Here is the impact of that though is now. These are thousands of dollars or pounds that I had not accounted for. Can we talk, it's, it's back to that like interpersonal thing. Like we can understand both of them. Not that like, oh, they've turned, they've turned into someone else. Well, no, they're kind of someone else right now because of whatever it is they're going through.
And this could be weddings, this could be whatever someone's going through. Um, to not take it personal [00:44:00] but also. Not fall into people pleasing. It's all the more reason to hold a boundary when someone's not quite being themselves. I just, I, I thought that was really insightful. I wonder if you could speak more to that lesson you've learned.
Natalie Lue: Yeah, and I think particularly on, on the subject of money, I, you know, one of the things I quickly point out, um, at the start of that chapter is that everyone has a relationship with money. They've got their own money story going on and. At, at, at the end of the day, as you say, when people are, are, are desperate, afraid, struggling with something that can really alter how someone is showing up.
And if you get offended, because, for instance, somebody's turning around and saying, actually, I can't afford to do the thing that you are trying to get me to do. Or actually it's not okay to spend that amount of money, or whatever it might be. What you are missing is really that opportunity to meet the person where they're at and connect.
And rather than making it all [00:45:00] about, oh, it's me, my worthiness, they're trying to hurt me, they're trying to offend me. It's like, what else might be going on here? Because I find that people really, really over personalize people's noes, uh, but they also overpersonalize. Uh, you know, yes, it's part of the noes, but what people are not in a position to do.
And it's like, you know, one of those, uh, areas of scripts in the book is I talk about like, for instance, you know, like, uh, which also taps into the whole restaurant thing, but, you know, dietary restrictions and stuff like that. Why we get, why we getting offended when somebody says, I can't eat whatever it is.
We have to look a little bit deeper at ourselves in that moment and go, like, why, why are we taking it so personal that somebody said, actually, I can't eat, blah, blah, blah. You know, whether that is at a restaurant or whether that's because you're cooking it. And I think we really need to come [00:46:00] back into our humanity.
Um, and in the world we live in, I think it's, it can be very, very easy to become distanced from that and realizing that if we can be. If we can recognize where people are coming from without making up too many stories about it, without being over empathetic. 'cause you know, we can lean the other way and be like, well they could be blah, so why can't, let's, no.
It's like when you see people kind of getting all funny and triggered about something, don't make it about you. Get curious.
Rachel Duncan: that's that codependency kicking up. Yeah. like, oh, they're, they're getting weird. I'm feeling weird. Oh no. You know, it's like, oh, hang on. It can be a very good clue to like, okay, am I depending my. Putting Too much dependence on my feeling. On their feeling. I can still understand it. I can care for them.
Be like what you're going through, you must be going through a hard thing. Suddenly I am there with you without feeling everything you're feeling.
Natalie Lue: Yeah, it's like be [00:47:00] curious, um, but don't get lost. Uh, I think we're just so quick to be like, it's me.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Natalie Lue: You know, that it's the, you know, it's about me, and it's like, no, let's, let's go a bit deeper here. And I think that this has the potential really just to, to shift our experiences of having conversations about money, because by goodness we need to have more conversations about money.
We need to speak up more. We'd all have a bit more money. Actually, if we spoke up more and said.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah,
Natalie Lue: No. Yes, this could be better, whatever it might be. We would all benefit from that financially.
Rachel Duncan: Absolutely, and, and in boundaries in general. You know, I do find that boundary setting, while it can feel awkward, it could be a new thing in a relationship. More often than not, it benefits everyone. So even like, it kind of like comes full circle. If you are a person who is of service and wants to help others, here's the thing, setting boundaries will actually help both, like I hope my email to this person taught.
This person [00:48:00] how, you know, an aspect of their startup. If they really need to learn this, they need to pay people for their expertise. And it was important for me. You know, I don't know if that lesson's gonna be there for that person, but like. It was important for me to say, and I think there's a good chance it was important for them to hear it.
And so often with friendships, with family things, because we're not allowed to talk about money, having that bit of bravery to bring it into the room, oh, so often, oh, I can't afford that either, or like, I'm so glad you brought that up. I can't do that either. I was worried about it. Like that doesn't always happen.
But it's, I think it's a not zero chance that it is going to help others because they, they, they might be thinking and feeling the same thing too.
Natalie Lue: Yeah, I always say that, you know, when we create healthier boundaries around, so, so we speak up, we're more honest with our yes and no it. Always benefits our relationships. People love to know where they stand, generally speaking. Obviously there are certain folks that they would much prefer it if you just roll over and do whatever the hell they [00:49:00] want, but actually that means that you need even more so to be, to be speaking up and showing up.
But it's also really this whole thing of like when you can turn around and be like, oh, this is what works me or This isn't what works me. If you and this person, if you both value the relationship, if you both value similar things. Even though it can feel like, oh, this is a difficult or awkward conversation, it ends up not being that difficult and not being that awkward because you ultimately want similar things and you both value the relationship.
Like I had an awkward conversation, a difficult conversation as such with a family member about money, but I, I, I said very much what I just said there. I said. Uh, you know, this has to be talked about and I value our relationship and if we don't talk about this, [00:50:00] you know, we're doing, I'm doing myself a disservice, but I'm also doing our relationship a disservice.
And what you said about how. You know, you hope that in, uh, you are communicating that in the email that that is to the betterment of that organization. This is what I mean about the whole twofold thing. Because in doing what kept you in integrity with yourself, you've communicated to them, uh, whether it's through your message or the fact that somebody else is also gonna turn around and say the same thing eventually.
They're gonna figure out, oh, hold on. Or maybe they will avail themselves as some free advice and realize that they probably should have paid for it from someone else and they would've actually got a much better setup. But we don't know what's possible without really speaking up about what feels good and right for us.
'cause in the end, it's not really about what suits the company. It's about what was good and right
Rachel Duncan: yeah.
Natalie Lue: And that's ultimately what boundaries is about.
Rachel Duncan: AB.
Mic drop moment and you know, some of your scripts also, I appreciate, bring some humor into it. Like we can also say [00:51:00] like, this is awkward as hell. Like, I mean, obviously depending on the relationship, right? We can identify, and we've already talked about money and like we don't have to suddenly have like perfect therapist speak, right?
That's also not genuine and not authentic like. I think sometimes having a bit of a laugh that isn't this weird, isn't this weird? We're talking, that's okay. That can sometimes like break it down and still be a person. Like it's not like these scripts are the only way to say it or, and I really appreciate, like, I feel like you have a nice range of like some of the scripts or.
More from more a professional setting, and then others are like with friends and parents and stuff, and like where you could bring more of yourself into it. You don't need to become a different human, you know, or have a completely different way of speaking. Um, but having some of these to feel around in your mouth, how would it feel to say these, um, I think is so, so important.
Natalie Lue: Yeah, abso, do you know, humor has always been an important part of my work where it's not that I'm just bringing it in for, for humor's [00:52:00] sake, but I think, you know, yeah, sometimes with the gravity of some of the subjects I'm talking about, there is also humor within that, and we need to be able to see that, but also.
Yes. There are times when what we have to communicate is serious. Yeah. And I've covered plenty of that within there, but actually the whole point as well, if that range of scripts was to show there, there can be lightness here. We can have a bit of humor. Like one of the first scripts is, you know that Phoebe Buffet?
No. You know Phoebe from friends where she says, I'd love to, I'd love to, but I don't want to. And I've actually used that. We're obviously not like, actually I did use that once at work like this years ago when I was an employee, but I've definitely used that with friends and it brings a lightness 'cause we, we, like, there's humor with it and then it's like, oh, okay.
Like we have to allow ourselves and it can't feel like do or die Armageddon every time we've gotta express something.
Rachel Duncan: Or they have to be like, perfect therapist speak and perfectly regulated and all that. Like that's not possible. That's absolutely not possible. [00:53:00] Yeah. Alright. Now I have a, I have a question I love to ask all my guests, which is, if you were to take a quiet moment and picture your money as a creature, what is the first thing to that comes to mind?
If you could share?
Natalie Lue: It was so funny 'cause when I thought about this earlier, I was like, oh, dragon. But that's not what I saw this time. It was more like a snake.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Could you say more? What did it look like?
Natalie Lue: It, it doesn't look threatening. it kind of reminds me of, um, that ridiculous snake from the Disney's, uh, Robin Hood. I dunno if you ever watched that as a kid. I was
obsessed,
Rachel Duncan: cartoon?
Natalie Lue: with the animated.
Rachel Duncan: Oh Yeah.
Natalie Lue: With that ridiculous snake with the big eyes. It's kind of reminds me a little bit of
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
I love that. You know, I think a lot of the mythical creatures come up a lot with this question. Dragons also come up quite a bit, and as you picture this snake that's actually there, but not threatening is maybe a little cartoonish. Um, what, what would it like to share with you?
What is it want for you? [00:54:00] What would it like to tell you?
Natalie Lue: The first thing that popped in was like, engage with me.
Rachel Duncan: Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Natalie Lue: Um, and I, I, I think yes, engage with me. Like, we can work together. You know, we can, we can collaborate like you're not on your own. I'm here, we can do this. Is, that's the sense of what is coming through from that. Like, I like, it's not saying, it's not like it's going, I'm your friend, but it's like we're
Rachel Duncan: Yeah.
Notice me engage with me. That's so often a characteristic of money when we connect directly in these, like creative prompts is, is money. So often is like, oh, I wanna be, let's do this together.
Like, it wants to collaborate, it wants to be with you. It, wants to be seen. Money loves to be noticed.
Just notice me more. Yeah.
Natalie Lue: Yeah. It's like there's a stop ignoring
me. [00:55:00] Um, and it's, and there's also this sense of like. If don't need to shy away, like let's take pride in this relationship.
Rachel Duncan: Yeah. Oh, I love that. So it's the interdependent, right? You are you. I'm me. Let's like work together. I love that.
Natalie Lue: Yeah.
Rachel Duncan: thank you for sharing that process with me, Nat. If anyone would like to follow your work or pick up this incredible book, where should they go?
Natalie Lue: So, um, How to Say No: The Scripts is available alongside, uh, a class that comes with it, which is just really about giving you some basics on the practicalities of, you know, creating healthier boundaries. And that's available on my store at baggagereclaim.com. So it's like a shop in there. It's got. Various books and, and bits and bobs in there.
So yeah, baggage reclaim.com, where you can also find my podcast, the Baggage Reclaim Sessions, which has got like over 300 episodes. Um, and I'm on Instagram as at [00:56:00] Nat Lu, that's N-A-T-L-U-E. And yeah, come and connect with me. I'd love to, I'd love to hear from
Rachel Duncan: Fantastic. I will put all of those links in the show notes. Nat, thank you so much for coming on and really looking at boundaries and money specifically, even though you talk about boundaries much more broadly. I really appreciate you sharing your expertise and your uh, beautiful cartoon snake with us.
Natalie Lue: Oh, Rachel, thank you so much for having me on. You know, I love chatting with you. It's been great to reconnect.
Rachel Duncan: Likewise.
Rachel Duncan: That's the Money Healing Club podcast, everyone. A now a little honest money moment because hey, that is what I do here. I want you to know that it costs about $400 to produce each episode. and right now that is funded through my other financial therapy work. So my ask is this, if this show has helped you feel even a little less ashamed, less alone, more grounded in [00:57:00] your money story, I'd love for you to support it financially.
Go on over to Moneyhealingclub.com/podcast and you'll see the button to contribute to the show.
Think of it as helping keep this a soft place to land. That's open to everyone. We are also always looking for new listener questions and stories to feature on an upcoming episode. So you can go to that same page, moneyhealingclub.com/podcast. Go to the big orange button where you can record your story, your question right from your phone or browser
and if you're craving more support, there's lots of other financial therapy goodness happening at moneyhealingclub.com. From group programs to courses to working one-on-one with me, you don't have to do this alone. Production support for the podcast by Sydney Harbosky at sydneyharbosky.com.
We are also a proud member of the Feminist Podcasters [00:58:00] Collective,
Where creators like me are building podcasts to make a better world together. I will see you next time.