S2 E34:🔄 Rethinking Time and Money with Becca Rich
EPISODE SUMMARY
What if the way you've been taught to think about time and money is fundamentally wrong? On this episode of the Money Healing Club podcast, Rachel welcomes Becca Rich, a holistic time coach and self-described money disruptor, to explore how both time and money function as cyclical resources rather than linear commodities we trade.
Together, they unpack why seasonal planning feels safer than rigid schedules, how to build a life that doesn't require you to "earn your rest," and what menstrual cycles can teach us about sustainable planning. Becca brings systems thinking, somatic wisdom, and spiritual depth to challenge our capitalist conditioning around productivity and worth.
This episode includes a gentle discussion about menstruation and body-based timekeeping, skip ahead or lean in, depending on what feels right for you today.
💬 "Approaching anything in a linear way makes us less honest because anything linear is a lie. It's neglecting our true nature." — Becca Rich
Key Takeaways:
Time and money are cyclical, not linear and understanding this shift can transform your relationship with both resources
The belief that "if you give, it will come back" can sometimes gaslight us into ignoring systemic inequalities
Procrastination doesn't exist, there are always valid reasons why we do or don't do things
Consistency is overrated; what we actually crave is self-trust and safety
Planning during low-energy phases (like menstruation or winter) sets you up for realistic success during high-energy times
Your body already knows what you need, muscle testing and somatic check-ins are powerful tools
About Becca Rich
Becca Rich is a holistic time coach who helps people unravel survival strategies that keep them overworking, overscheduling, and disconnected from their actual needs. With a focus on neurodivergence, capitalism's impact, and creative work, Becca brings a rare blend of systems thinking and somatic wisdom to conversations about time, productivity, and rest. Find her at https://www.beccarich.com/
EPISODE BREAKDOWN
03:00 | The Musical Nature of Money & Time Exploring how cycles, rhythms, and repetition show up in our financial and temporal experiences.
08:00 | When "Giving Back" Becomes Gaslighting How the spiritual belief that money flows back can ignore capitalist systems that vacuum wealth upward and why your body knows the truth about enough.
18:00 | The Original Lie: Linear Thinking Why approaching time and money as linear resources spawns guilt, shame, hoarding, and the feeling of never having enough.
31:00 | Menstrual Cycles as Financial Planning Tools Breaking down the four phases (menstrual, follicular, ovulation, luteal) and what each season teaches us about when to start projects, be social, complete tasks, and rest.
42:00 | Fall as Grief: Why We Avoid the Harvest Examining our cultural addiction to spring/follicular energy and our resistance to autumn's call to complete, grieve, and prepare for rest.
Resources Mentioned
Join the Conversation
What cycles do you notice in your own relationship with time or money? Does thinking about these resources cyclically open up more spaciousness for you? Click the big orange button on our site and leave me a voicemail, I'd love to hear what this brings up for you: moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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Full transcript: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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Rachel: Hey, money healers. So two of our most precious resources are money and time, and we often think we trade one for another or buy more of one with the other. It's very linear viewpoint, but what if we look at both time and money, a cyclical experiences and resources? Could our relationship with time even become spacious?
Even liberating. Today's guest, Becca Rich, is a holistic time coach and self-described money disruptor. Becca brings a rare blend of systems thinking, somatic wisdom, and spiritual depth to the way we think about time, productivity, and rest. Becca helps folks unravel the survival strategies that keep us overworking, overscheduling, and disconnected from our actual needs, especially for those of us navigating neurodivergence, capitalism and creative work.
You can find more about her work at [00:01:00] theholistictimecoach.com. In this conversation, Becca and I explore what time and money have in common when we look at them cyclically, why seasonal planning can feel safer than strict schedules, and we even hammer out some ideas on building a life that doesn't hinge on quote, earning your rest.
I do wanna give you a heads up. We have a gentle conversation about menstruation and body-based timekeeping, so feel free to skip this or lean in, depending on what's right for you today. A quick reminder that the Money Healing Club podcast is educational in nature and never takes the place of mental health care, financial, tax, or legal advice.
Please reach out to a licensed professional for your situation. So let's talk about what we don't usually say when we talk about time with Becca Rich.
Rachel: Okay, Becca, you know, we started this conversation with each of our niches. You know, I talk about money healing. You [00:02:00] talk about time healing. We started talking about like, it's, it's really about cycles. How we look at, how we look at both of these things.
And like when we think cycles, when you think cycles, like, what, what is it? Let's talk, let's expand this somewhere.
Becca Rich: Yeah. Cycles are, I literally have a tattoo of like a cycle on, on my rib cage. Like I have the beautiful, like nautilus shell, and it's such a beautiful image just in general to remind ourselves that things don't happen in the way that our brain or our society typically thinks or believes about money and time. I'm laughing at our notes too, because we put like the connection of money and time with musical properties and now I'm kind, we're both like, what, what is that?
Rachel: Maybe we meant like rhythm or speed.
Becca Rich: I dunno. But it really is like. You know, musical music is [00:03:00] cyclical.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: can listen to a song on repeat over and
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: over again. I definitely do that sometimes
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: And every single time you listen to it, you maybe hear a different lyric or you hear the same lyric or you hear different chords. And, now that I'm like thinking about spirals or cyclical nature of, of just life we're constantly evolving and we're constantly
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: like, just like we're spinning on this planet around, like everything around us. The season's history repeats itself, things are coming in and then going out
Rachel: And do, do you think like then what is the balance of like the finite nature? Like there's also a finite nature of our lived experiences as well as as money, like. There's at the same time reconciling the, the limited, or not limited, but like the bookends of it. 'cause there are bookends.
Like we all earned our first dollar at some point. It did begin right?
Becca Rich: [00:04:00] also like think of like a I'm like thinking like a microscope. When you just, with finiteness, you just take that chunk or you just like zoom in on that little piece 'cause you know your parents birthed you before and they made their first dollar and you know, where has that dollar been?
And so it's not just about like us,
Rachel: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: The cycle connects all of us to each other. Right? What do you think about that?
Rachel: I mean, even if we were to take, okay, that first dollar I earned at some point was, let's say it was spent, right? Like I bought this shirt or. You know, I bought bubblegum, right? And then where that went, and it's like this little droplet that then went into the economy, right? Which is very much like a lot of the metaphors about water and flow really do work with the economy, right?
And then there it went, and there it flowed. It never stopped existing even though I don't possess it [00:05:00] anymore. Like that dollar actually, like this is a huge fun idea. Like that dollar still exists, right? My first babysitting dollar. Yeah, the first babysitting dollar I made when I was 11 is still out there.
Maybe it's even come through my account. I don't know. Isn't that fun? Yeah.
Becca Rich: And like then even dollars being created used to be trees, is used to be papers, used to be all these things that, yeah, it like, it, it never truly begins or ends in, in my experience. I don't like. Unless you wanna get spiritual about it, where does everything start
Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And what does ending mean? I like, I like what you're saying. It's like, well, yeah, if you zoom in, like micro, micro, that it's finite, but really just like when you think about it or talk to someone smart like Becca, it's like, oh no, it's not finite. That's a really fun thing to think about and I think, you know, one thing that some of my clients, I think we get a little bit caught up with.
I mean, [00:06:00] my bias, I'm always gonna talk about money, but like, it's like, oh, well if I spend it, it will come back to me. And sometimes there is a bit of magical thinking that can get muddy And I, I am not quite sure. Do you know what I'm saying? Like I do think we can get a little bit too up here where also like both time and money are very real things.
I think this is what we wanted to talk about is like they are resources and if we start thinking there's that magical, where do you like take that conversation? I don't know. What do you think about that?
Becca Rich: Yeah. I think a lot of things I'm, I'm curious, like, you first, like how do you reconcile sort of like this, this balance between
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: society and norms kind of like what I am hearing
Rachel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: And then this more like spiritual, more belief kind of space.
Rachel: I mean, I think there's a lot of guilt spending and I [00:07:00] think where I feel like, oh, I want to, you know, support causes or support businesses I believe in, that's great. But sometimes, you know, feeling like, oh, I'm being generous, I'm being supportive, and I'm using my dollars for that in a way that like, is leaving my future less safe.
I do think sometimes, the folks that I work with often over give out of a sense of obligation, outta a sense of duty, out of a sense of guilt. Like, I'm a person in this world, I wanna be supporting these things where money is one way to support those things. You know? And I do think at, if we're considering these precious resources, um, there's a lot of resources I could give my time to an organization, I could give my connections to an organization.
You know, like money is one choice. I, I just feel like. You know, the folks like us who read the news and I see my privilege and I want to help others, and it comes from such a good place. I don't know. It's like short term, long term. I don't have a clear answer to it other than, you know, I [00:08:00] think if, if we're like, well, if I, if I give it away, it will come back to me.
I just like, well, wait, hang on a second, because sometimes we give it away and we don't allow it to come back to us, or we don't actually make the plan for it to come back to us and just hope that it does. That's just like not always the way it works what do you think?
Becca Rich: I love it. Lots of thoughts I, I think about like the body as like this midpoint
Rachel: Hmm.
Becca Rich: or like this like kind of gauge and what came up as you were speaking is how we approach money is often how we approach time, vice versa, right? And so you're, if we overgive in money, we often overgive in time in some ways
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: And, the body tells us the real answer of like, if we're over giving in either direction
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: And so if you're spending, and then I, I kind of think that this kind of going on a separate tangent a little bit, but they connect, I'll connect them. This thought [00:09:00] of if I give, it'll come back. It can kind of gaslight us sometimes. Like I feel like it's a little gaslighting.
Rachel: That's the word. Thank you. Thank you. It is kind of gaslighting because also how our capitalist society is, is actually money is getting vacuumed up by the rich.
Becca Rich: Right. And that is kind of what's happening
Rachel: That's very much what's happening. Yeah.
Becca Rich: the world. Right? And so. As the rich accumulates more and more wealth that that means in our capitalist society as well, that they're accumulating time often
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: in ways, right? They can buy labor so then they don't have to spend their time doing a whole bunch of stuff that us everyday people do. Like the solution or the way forward is to let your body tell you what is enough to give both.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: in money and time, because it is a cycle, like yes, money does flow back. Yes, time does flow back, but it because we're not in like a [00:10:00] perfect linear world, it might not flow back in the exact
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: amount that you, you put out.
Rachel: Right.
Becca Rich: no one guarantees that.
Rachel: Right. And if you're the kind of person, oh, I'm a giver, then you also might be blocked for opportunities to receive and not get it back, you know?
Becca Rich: Yeah. Yeah. You know, I, I don't know. Do I believe that?
Rachel: Hmm. Checking in with the body. Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: I have a lot of hard times with like spiritual, law of attraction kind of things, you know? And. That's kind of why I thought that the other sentiment of like, if what you give you get back is gaslighty, I think often it's not either or. It's not this binary of like I and you, I know you know this
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: it, it's so easy to like, because time and money are so linear in our world, it's easy to approach them in this binary way
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: And so, [00:11:00] um.
Rachel: And I think it can go far on the other scale. You know, we talk about like there's money hoarding, which is like, you know, holding it all and having so much anxiety and not, you know, being so afraid to let any of it go, which is another form of financial trauma. And you know, that rigidity also doesn't allow for the softness of some mobility
I do, I do think, you know, I've heard like money, money wants to move. But I don't think that means it wants to move out of your account. Like actually, like money. Money does want to move and exist and support you, and I think, you know, it doesn't wanna be locked. I, I have found, like when I'm relating to money as its own sort of personality.
It wants to be there, it wants to support, it wants to be creative, and sometimes that means outflow and sometimes it means inflow and sometimes it means moving with around within what you've got. I just see it as actually pretty flexible. And so I think we can go to either extreme where, oh, it just flows [00:12:00] through my fingertips.
Or, you know, I get anxious when there's money left in my account and I just have to spend it. That's one end. And the other end is like, I won't let myself, you know, buy a new pair of socks. And I've seen it all, like those extremes and everything in between. And really it's sort of expressions of not honoring the, of looking at like money as energy.
And maybe that's a way to think of it, is like a resource, like, energy and maybe you keep some, you give some, you maintain it, you tend to it. I mean, the metaphor
Becca Rich: yeah,
Rachel: I love is actually a garden. I think the gardening metaphor works really well for that. Right. You don't give away all your produce.
Yeah,
Becca Rich: and gardens are cyclical in nature
Rachel: yeah.
Becca Rich: know, I, I'm a farmer so I'm really in tune
Rachel: Oh yeah,
Becca Rich: with like,
Rachel: exactly.
Becca Rich: I'm really in tune with, with
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: know, I sometimes on the farm when we can't get around to [00:13:00] picking the beans 'cause they take so long and it's so hot and, you know, there's biting flies and all this stuff.
And my, my husband actually has to remind me sometimes that it's not a waste because it goes back to the earth.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: And that like always like, ugh.
Rachel: That's really cool.
Becca Rich: like, okay, if, if I don't get to everything that we need,
Rachel: Mm,
Becca Rich: the earth, either way, the earth is here to take care of
Rachel: mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: it. It'll, it'll take it
Rachel: Yeah, there's a lot that it can like exist on its own and you can do some tending and also you have some shit years, like that's very much the economy. You can also put seats in the ground and do all your best effort and like. If we think about investing and then, you know, we have a recession or we have a downturn, and that's very much the weather and you know, but if you keep at it, you keep going.
In this longer game, if you look back up and look at how you might be building like a landscape or a garden, there are, you know, great years in and downturns. But actually all in all, it will continue to grow. And so I think about [00:14:00] that a lot with, with how to think of investments, um, and. Yeah. And these seeds and the way you tend to it and the way you pay attention and some things are gonna go okay on their own.
And some things you do need to tend to and deal with, right? You've got an infestation, you have to deal with it, right?
Becca Rich: Freakin voles.
Rachel: You've got an overdraft, you, you have to deal with it. Like magical thinking is not gonna help with that. There's a stewardship with money that I really, I feel very strongly about that I've, I've come to, in my money healing journey.
I feel like a, I feel like a steward of my own money.
Becca Rich: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I'm curious what your thoughts are about like sort of coming out of, out of like a denial around both money and time, like coming and being honest with yourself about where it's going, what you're doing with it
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: how it's feeling like on a granular level, in a macro, bigger level
Rachel: I really do. I mean, I think it's funny we laugh about like, [00:15:00] oh, is that a tomorrow me problem or a future me problem? Or future me? We'll deal with that. Or, you know, next month is gonna be better. And, and I really understand it, right? It's like, are we saying that things are just overwhelming at this moment?
'cause all we can do is this moment I'm saying I can't right now. There's also like, I don't know, in the club we talk about like fantasy self. Like, oh, did I buy that for me? Or did I buy that for the version of me that I would like to be, or I thought I could be. There's an honesty there also about
who are you now? Like, do you wear sundresses every day or are you a person who buys a lot of sundresses? Like those are different things and so, you know, there's a little bit of that fantasy going on. Little magical thinking. I'm the kind of person who wears these dresses every day. I'm like, well,
is that aspirational? Is that something you really do right now? And I do think there's this honesty for sure. Yeah. How does that come up for you and your clients with time? Like are we kinda talking about like what are we putting off what's [00:16:00] in our capacity right now?
Becca Rich: Yeah. I mean, the download that I just got is that like approaching, I think both these resources, but approaching anything in a linear way. Makes us less honest because that's anything linear is a lie. It's, it's neglecting our true nature.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: so when we think about, I'm gonna stick with time, but also applies to money when we think about like, I'll do that next week, or I'll do that tomorrow, or a future me problem, we do the same like we're, we're lying to ourselves and then. We're unrealistic and then we take it personally
Rachel: Mm.
Becca Rich: and then it becomes like a personal wound, like a self-worth kind
Rachel: Totally
Becca Rich: identity ego wound,
Rachel: I'm crap with with money. I can't plan my day.
Becca Rich: money
Rachel: Yes. I can't, you know? Yeah. I've time blindness all of that stuff. Gosh, that's so true.[00:17:00]
Becca Rich: when we've just been taught for like. How to approach both these resources with linear scarcity and rigidity
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: and meanness. Like there's, we're so mean to ourselves,
Rachel: we are.
Becca Rich: We, we punish ourselves I think linear believing that both these resources are linear as like the original sin, the original lie.
And then from there, because we think about these things in this way
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: then we rush.
Rachel: Mm.
Becca Rich: we push things off. We try to hoard, we
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: feel like failures. I think it kind of like
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: spawns out into all of these symptoms of just thinking about this in a, a capitalist way.
Rachel: Wow, that's really profound. I have to really digest that. I think that's true. [00:18:00] Especially, it's like, okay, am I making, do I really not have the capacity to call the bank today? Fair, so it's not necessarily a tomorrow me problem, but do I have a, you know, will I put in a rhythm in my week, in my, whatever makes sense for me in my cycle, in my month, whatever, where that tending is gonna happen.
Like, it's the pulling the weeds. Like when am I, when am I gonna pull the weeds? I mean, how, how would you talk with someone about that? Right? Let's, let's say this, okay, let's come up with an example where we're talking about someone who like. I don't know. There's a false charge on their account or something.
They need to like call a bank. Right? Worst thing ever. They have no interest in doing this, but it really needs to happen.
Becca Rich: making phone calls
Rachel: phone calls
Becca Rich: are the worst.
Rachel: Absolutely. The worst thing. Right? Okay, so someone we've got, we've got a client has to make a fucking phone call to deal with something. Let's say it's kind of high stakes.
Let's say there's like a $200 charge that they really don't think was theirs. Okay. How do we talk with someone to. [00:19:00] De-capitalize time and money to support this person in stewarding their money. What would you, what would you say?
Becca Rich: Yeah. I mean, I always start with self and so it's like we have to tend to our own mental, emotional wellbeing. To then be able to do the thing that we want or need to do
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: That's always like where I start I have like this whole process called following through gently. And within that, like any of the resistance that we have to doing a thing, like all it needs is for us to talk gently and compassionately
Rachel: Hmm.
Becca Rich: to it
Rachel: Yes.
Becca Rich: And it doesn't mean like one of the biggest, things that people think as talking gently means that it's a pass. And
Rachel: Hmm.
Becca Rich: not what I mean
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: Right? I really truly mean like some sort of middle space between
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: [00:20:00] accountability and boundaries that is gentle.
Rachel: Right?
Becca Rich: that is loving, that is, is encouraging. Yeah, like starting with that is, is key. Like if you're struggling to call the bank or whatever,
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: have compassion about that. If you did spend that or have compassion with yourself, if you're struggling to make the time to call the bank or you're feeling behind and you should have done it weeks ago, or like
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: any of those messaging, it is immediately soothed and solved the moment that you speak gently to yourself
Rachel: Yeah, I love that. I'm already like having this inner dialogue, like kind of using an internal family systems like, oh yeah, you're really nervous that this isn't going gonna go well. You're, oh, you're nervous of being criticized. Oh, you're nervous. This is gonna turn into maybe a bigger deal than you think.
I understand that, right? This is how you would talk to a child. You know, I just, this morning, you know, my kids are starting a new week at summer camp. One of them was feeling [00:21:00] shaky about it. It was gonna miss us, and all I could say is, I know you're gonna miss. You know, mom and papa, how about, you know, we get you a stuffy and you know, that is that it's, it's boundaried, but it's gentle and it's that I see you.
What supports can we put in place and yeah, just receiving those words really gently. Yeah. And even like normally, yeah, this kind of sucks.
Becca Rich: Acknowledging.
Rachel: Totally validating and acknowledging it. Chances are good, this is gonna get resolved. Hey, let's, let's dance to disco music after this is all done.
Right? Like, that's how you would talk to a child like, okay, this kind of sucks. Let's get through it we're gonna celebrate. You can do this, right? You're a person in this world who has to deal with a fucking bank, okay?
Becca Rich: you are not alone
Rachel: You are not alone. We've all done it, and usually the person on the other side of the phone is doing the best they can.
They're not [00:22:00] judgmental of you yeah. I mean already just like hearing that and saying those words to myself, I'm like, yeah, just do it. If that's the case. Yeah, yeah,
Becca Rich: that's what happens
Rachel: yeah.
Becca Rich: somatically in our bodies when we do that
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: then we get a surge of energy and motivation that overcomes that hump of resistance to starting a thing
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: doing a thing.
Rachel: So do you feel, is this how you're, you like, are we talking about procrastination when that comes up? Like is that how we're talking through it?
Becca Rich: I don't believe in procrastination.
Rachel: Tell say more. Say more. Another lie. Another lie.
Becca Rich: Yeah, procrastination implies that we're lazy, that we're bad, that we're wrong, that we're not motivated enough, or like all of these implications. And there is a reason why we do things and why we don't do
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: And so if you're not doing a thing, what society will [00:23:00] call procrastination and then you believe that. All of the really implications of what that means just being honest and compassionate with yourself and saying like, I'm really tired. Or I have, you know, I don't have the access to the right resources to call the bank. Maybe my phone isn't working or like any reason, maybe I have to watch my kid, like I don't have childcare.
There's so many reasons why we do and don't do things. And so, I don't wanna like. Just sort of like get rid of and erase all of those real reasons and just like lump it in as this like
Rachel: Totally,
Becca Rich: moral label of badness.
Rachel: comes back to that gentle. Gentle self-talk. Right? And like validating the parts of you that feel, you know afraid or avoidant 'cause that's a big theme that comes up with me and my clients, is like, oh, I've been [00:24:00] avoiding it. I'm money avoidant. And which I will challenge. I don't think that exists either.
Like, it sounds like this is dysregulating for you and so not doing it has been protective.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: You know, like that it is a choice. It's not really the not doing. And, and there are, you know, emotional and very practical implications of that. Okay, totally. We can't give 'em the time machine. Let's see what we can do now.
And yeah, love ourselves through the process. Avoidance is like sometimes a very reasonable choice given whatever, like you said, like this, this particular context. If we can though, have this sort of inner dialogue though about it, then we're going to, to actually reach some healing because if we don't have the inner dialogue, if we are avoiding stuff or whatever, then it kind of, it's, it's this open wound.
But if we can actually listen in, [00:25:00] oh yeah, I'm avoiding that. I can just name that. I am. Okay. Right.
Becca Rich: being honest and compassionate. That's it
Rachel: That's it. I know it's so funny when I'm one of my first financial therapy clients said like, God damn it, it always comes back to self-love. Isn't that annoying? I'm like, I know. I like, I wish there was a different answer, but there just isn't.
I wish there was a different answer.
Becca Rich: There is a different answer
Rachel: Ooh. Okay.
Becca Rich: there's two
Rachel: Okay.
Becca Rich: But did you wanna finish
Rachel: No, no, but like, no, no. That's fine. You know, I kind of got into this, oh, I'm a therapist, but I also like money stuff. I'll help people with the practical things. That's kinda like how I entered into this, what, four or five years ago and it's like, oh no, it actually all circles back to compassion.
To healing, to relationships, like all of that. I mean, self-love, I don't think really encapsulates it, but like, it's like, oh, I wish there were a different answer. But it really act. All roads lead back to that to get, you know, to get to a healed place with any of this stuff. 'cause it is, it's not like, oh, I need to make a budget [00:26:00] first and then I'll deal with the emotions with money.
Like that's. Then you're never going to
Becca Rich: have fun trying to make a budget
Rachel: have fun trying to make a budget and you're never gonna get to the healing part. Like, like, no that doesn't quite work that way. Yeah. What are the other two ways?
Becca Rich: Well, I think, so there's one, this is one of the ways, and then what is super interconnected with it is, being a certified holistic practitioner, we think about internal and external
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: And so I think that's something that. The coaching industry misses,
Rachel: Yes.
Becca Rich: the self-care industry misses completely is the external.
And you know, we have acknowledged that capitalism and all these other systems of oppression impact our money and our time. so when we approach both of these resources just as the internal, like, oh, you just need to love yourself more, I think. That can be spurred as like gaslighting.
Rachel: totally.
Becca Rich: I don't wanna speak to money necessarily 'cause I, I, I have my own stuff with money, but with time as well. people are like, oh, [00:27:00] telling everybody to time block or to do a Pomodoro session and it whittles everything down to hacking. And I think that that's probably similar to budgeting or
Rachel: Totally
Becca Rich: any of the money hacks, right. Without acknowledging that. someone doesn't have childcare, maybe someone has like a ton of debt, a ton of loans, you know, they can't afford health insurance.
Like all of these things that the systems that are external to us that are supposed to be our safety net and to take care of us as individuals in society that is completely missing in most of the conversations. Right.
Rachel: that's totally true. And yeah, and it even like, as I say, self-love, like I don't love it because you're right, it's so individualistic. It's like,
Becca Rich: misses it.
Rachel: Read a book and have some self-love. I do think a lot of it is about receiving love and community, and
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: That's why like a place like the Money Healing Club, while some people are like, I would never bring my money stuff to a community or a club, that's okay.
I do honor that. But the [00:28:00] people who do make that brave step, you know, see so much more growth because they're linking arms because this is not an individual thing. And you know, sometimes we're hard on ourselves, sometimes we're assholes to ourselves, and we need relationships to actually reflect back to us the love, you know, that we need to remind us of our humanity.
So now I'm glad you said that because. It gets out of even like the therapy sphere where I, where I was trained, although we definitely had like a social justice aspect too. It's like, oh, well the purpose of the one-on-one therapy is to reflect the client back to them, their own, you know, their self, their true self and their goodness, which is great.
That's why the relationally that works. But it's also very compartmentalized. Like, oh, this can only be spoken here. And yeah, we actually, like, part of financial activism is simply talking about money with more people.
Becca Rich: Yeah, yeah,
Rachel: And like making this a little more of an open thing.
Becca Rich: yeah. I think it's so easy to become [00:29:00] linear in these resources. It's really easy to become individualistic with
Rachel: true.
Becca Rich: these resources. And so that's another, maybe original sin, original lies that it's individual. And I think the solution is, is to do your best, to be gentle with yourself and to. Take care of yourself
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: love on yourself. And then it's also to the, one of the best ways that I level on myself is, is what I'm experiencing with, with others like you said
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: in, in relationship and community and, and then also like protesting
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: fighting for our rights to exist or to have our,
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: lives sort of taken care of by the people
Rachel: Yeah,
Becca Rich: that are supposed to take care of it.
Our governments, you
Rachel: join in and speak up. Absolutely. We actually, we have theme months in the club and the theme for July is financial activism. You know, and it can be moving your money to a credit union. It could be simply like activism doesn't have [00:30:00] to look like taking to the streets.
Yeah, it can be, you know, obviously making sure you register to vote. I mean, I know sometimes that seems like so little, but no, these are, these are big. And sometimes you only you have the bandwidth for that. Sometimes you have bandwidth for more and I do think it's, it's the time to reflect on that actual.
Recommend everyone. The Financial Activist Playbook by Jasmine Rashid. Pick it up. It will give you what you need. If you feel shitty about capitalism, Jasmine will help you through it. And she was on my podcast a little while back, so yeah.
Becca Rich: Yeah. I love that. And I think it's, that's a beautiful example
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: of sharing other people's work and resources and their own time and labor and, and life force that they've put into creating things. One of the ways that we can also deconstruct, you know, looking at these resources in an individualistic or linear way.
Rachel: so true, Becca. Maybe we could break out a little kind of example from both of our. You know, [00:31:00] perspectives for folks who menstruate, which is one of the, you know, it's a real obvious cycle that those of us who menstruate, you know, live through and also the lunar cycle for folks who don't menstruate.
And I was, I was sort of like brainstorming with the four phases and I know I've my thoughts, but do you wanna kind of like workshop, like okay, at the different phases of the menstrual cycle, like what are some good ways to approach those phases?
Becca Rich: Yeah. I think the sort of canvas for this is like the cyclical time
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: in with the lens that we can talk about
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: you can use those four different distinct sort of phases for anything
Rachel: True. That's so true. And actually, there's this model in art therapy of the mandala and it's like it starts at source and there's beginnings, there's growth, there's identity, there's falling apart and there's regeneration. And that happens in a minute. It happens in a year. It happens in a life cycle, happens in an organization.
And [00:32:00] so we can really take all of this. Well, okay, so correct me if I'm wrong, we have follicular, ovulation, luteal, menstrual. Right? That's what I think of them. Okay.
Becca Rich: and I, I actually start with menstrual
Rachel: Okay.
Becca Rich: I don't know
Rachel: True.
Becca Rich: If people, I think that's day one,
Rachel: Yeah. 'cause it's day one.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: totally right. Yeah, let's do that. 'cause it's also just a clear day one. It doesn't mean it starts there
Becca Rich: yeah.
Rachel: Okay. So when we think of someone in the menstrual phase, what are you thinking about? Let's just describe that time.
As we all probably know, but let's put some words to it.
Becca Rich: We all have different experiences of that,
Rachel: for sure.
Becca Rich: but for me personally, the specific days of bleeding anyways, it changes for me
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: The first like two days or three days is like really crampy and just like blah and not enough energy and it's easier to be harder on myself, like my inner critic will rear its head
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: a lot stronger during that time as well.
What about [00:33:00] you?
Rachel: Yeah. I find an overwhelming urge to walk into a mountain cave and have no one talk to me. It's usually, it's a real downward time, a real inward quiet time you know, not really wanting to be social, just a gear down. Sometimes some anxiety comes up, but I think that's more of an outside thing of like, oh, why should we productive, you know?
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: I feel like I'm 45, so I'm also perimenopausal, which means I go through this now every 20 days. So that's really interesting where it's like a lot more often than it used to be. And a little more emotional, but I don't know if it's more emotional or I'm just more in tune and I'm honoring it instead of blocking it.
Maybe a little bit of both but yeah, I feel like it's such a good time for the cosmic download, such a good time to like just receive. Be low be a little dark, think spooky thoughts. And I think a lot about the other phases are all about [00:34:00] supporting that time. Like what I would want to know is during that time things are getting paid automatically, things are getting transferred automatically.
Like I have kind of put things in place so that, that time is supported.
Becca Rich: Yeah,
Rachel: yeah.
Becca Rich: I always do, and this is maybe going backwards a little bit
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: but it's important. I always do like my monthly bookkeeping and paying everything off and paying myself like day or two before I get my cycle
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: so then I can actually rest and I can do nothing. 'cause I'm like, okay, I'm safe, I'm good.
Like all is well.
Rachel: Which is part, doesn't that make sense? Like Kate, I think Kate Northrop said like, have your luteal list, the tasky shit. It is perfect when you're in the luteal phase and it really is like preparing your nest so that you can rest. Yeah, I love that. And I mean, it could be a good time to like pick up something like the art of money if you wanna be reflective about it.
But I wouldn't try to be productive about it because I think when you trust a cycle. It's like [00:35:00] I know that follicular coming next. Don't worry about it. You know, that's, I have come to trust myself in a week. You know that that's gonna be a better time to have energy for things or something like that.
Becca Rich: And that's because you, your brain acknowledges for what, over 30 plus years,
Rachel: Yeah,
Becca Rich: 30 ish years
Rachel: yeah. But I'm gone around. Yeah.
Becca Rich: that the cycle keeps going. And so I think that's one of the key, you asked earlier, like, how can we like approach these things in a more cyclical way is like giving your brain evidence that the cycle continues.
Rachel: I like that. Yeah.
Becca Rich: I love reading Braiding Sweetgrass, and I love any indigenous wisdom that talks about the United States before it was
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: United States, and I love talking to grandparents. I have a 90 something year old woman in this community that I love talking to. I love playing pickleball because I talk to all the people that are like, I protested of the [00:36:00] Vietnam War and
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: They get it
Rachel: Yeah,
Becca Rich: they get that time keeps moving
Rachel: keeps going
Becca Rich: and so it doesn't feel like an emergency right here. I can't rest, or I can't do
Rachel: right.
Becca Rich: what I need and want to do because the cycle continues
Rachel: Yeah,
Becca Rich: So yeah.
Rachel: totally
Becca Rich: side note.
Rachel: Trusting yourself, trusting the cycles. Like I know me like a good night's sleep pretty much solves any of my problems. Like you just get to a point where you just know this stuff. And the more I learned about menstrual cycles too, that really helped me like, oh yeah, that does all make sense.
'cause I think, you know, the dominant thing is like, oh well consistency is key. Which is the biggest lie of all? Like who? Like who here is consistent? Who wants to be consistent? What, what interesting person has ever been consistent? Like, I dunno,
Becca Rich: Also, life would be so boring
Rachel: so boring.
Becca Rich: if I woke up every single day at 8:00 AM and ate at 9:00 AM
Rachel: Same thing.
Becca Rich: what, like the same thing
Rachel: Yeah. Like, come on.
Becca Rich: You would forget your life.
Rachel: And I actually think it's a little bit of a sidebar, but I do think when, especially when clients come to me like, well, I just need [00:37:00] to be consistent with myself, like.
Do you mean you wanna build yourself trust? Do you mean you wanna feel safer? I think that's actually what you mean, because I don't think consistency, like you don't want that.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: It's not fun.
Becca Rich: Or you know, it could be like semantics, like procrastination is like consistency is just doing things when you want and need to do them
Rachel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Becca Rich: And you really know what you want and need to do, you're honest, you're in tune with yourself, in tune with the cycles, and you acknowledge
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: it and you do your best.
Rachel: And you're not doing it on your own? How about, that's another thing, right? That it's not this solo cowboy adventure. So we come out of menstrual phase. Next comes the follicular phase, which if, you know, is menstruating is where like the walls are being built up and the egg is getting ready to be released.
And so it's very much the spring, right? Kind of menstrual side is the phase is winter and follicular is a spring. [00:38:00] Once this was taught to me, I like really get it like it is the time you wanna start things, right? You kind of have this like newness, this maybe kind of like younger energy. And I just jotted down a few notes, like it's a good time for researching a new job or, you know, setting up a new account or like learning a budget app.
Like you tend to have like a more capacity to get into something ambiguous and have the energy to get through it. You know, do that thing you meant to do, you know, before, uh, that kind of thing joining something, you know, that it's a really, it's a really good time to be starting. Any other thoughts about that phase?
Becca Rich: Yeah. I mean, in the context of of the external, we're addicted to this phase. This is where we feel unstoppable.
Rachel: Yeah. We're like, why can't it always be like this?
Becca Rich: Yeah,
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: this is where we're unrealistic.
Rachel: Love that.
Becca Rich: this is where we could set ourselves up for failure.
Rachel: Well, it just leads up to ovulation. Like, why can't we be like that all the time? Like, that's the real superhero [00:39:00] phase, don't you think?
Becca Rich: yeah, yeah. I think with ovulation, I think of summer and summer
Rachel: Hmm.
Becca Rich: is the time where. You are actually less like doing
Rachel: Hmm.
Becca Rich: in a way and you're more like social and you're more like out there versus the follicular where I feel like it's more like internal but productive
Rachel: mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: you're still doing stuff
Rachel: If we think about, you know, follicular is probably, what, 10 to 14 days? Something like that. Right? You know, a third of your month. Like you cannot expect to be like that forever. You can't sprint a marathon.
Yeah.
Becca Rich: So I like to actually plan somewhere in my luteal or my menstrual phase for like what I wanna do because I'm tired and I don't feel like doing much
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: so when I do that. And I recommend this to a lot of folks, is to plan then. So then when you're in follicular ovulation or the higher
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: kind of like energy periods, you actually get it all done
Rachel: Yeah. [00:40:00] Yeah, I like that a lot.
Becca Rich: instead of planning when you have energy and you are unrealistic.
Rachel: Mm-hmm. But it's, yeah, I think you're right. It's the time of biting off more than you can chew. Totally.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: Okay. And then ovulation, kind of the summer, like you said, it's a shorter time and that is when you know if you're menstruating, you're the most fertile and it's so interesting. You literally are more attractive to people.
You tend to feel like just more confident, right? And you're kinda like, ah, the new me, right? You wanna be with people, people wanna be with you, right? Like all of that. I find it very, very powerful phase. And that's a good one to like yeah. Book that interview or, you know, if you're involved in sales at all.
That's a good time for that kind of thing. Kind of a, kind of the crest of the energy, right? The crest of that wave of energy.
Becca Rich: Yeah, I think when you say that, I think that it's really easy again to forget about that time isn't linear.
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: I'm thinking of when you're interviewing or if you have sales calls, [00:41:00] like people do struggle to block out the other times of the month
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: from doing those things. And so this isn't prescriptive, like obviously you do you whatever, if you want to do that during those times, but that's the reason why we struggle to do the other things is because we're so focused on doing the more high priority or revenue generating activities that we forget about the admin and we forget about the other stuff
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: thats equally important for bringing revenue in or making money or taking care of yourself. All of it.
Rachel: So true, so true. Right. Which actually brings us to this, to the luteal phase, which is more of the autumn, the harvest, kind of preparing the nest, you know, for me, I almost like feel this, like, it's like, like the energy just comes like. And then we're done and not full on, but like a little bit like I don't really wanna do things.
I feel like a little person I get in my cave and I just wanna like, and I [00:42:00] read a lot and I kind of take care of a lot of the things I wasn't doing 'cause I was being super social the week before. But yeah, I update my bookkeeping. It's like good for tasky shit I find.
And also too, what do I need to close the loop on? What did I start a few weeks ago that really warrants being closed or finished? And it feels really good. I find that like when I complete things. In the luteal phase, it feels really right, like often like it feels, 'cause I'm preparing myself, so it's not like lingering when I'm menstruating.
So yeah, I find it's good for like, yeah, filling out paperwork, things like that and, and think thinking a little ahead of like, like good time to kind of think about some systems. What are some automations, what are some things I can put in place so that I can trust that things are running so that I can step
into my cave, you know, in a few days, like bank alerts and stuff like that.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: yeah.
Becca Rich: I love that. I have such a hard relationship with fall.
Rachel: Hmm,
Becca Rich: I feel like fall is like grief to me
Rachel: Hmm.[00:43:00]
Becca Rich: I've avoided winter. I'm not a cold weather person. I've avoided winter successfully over 13 years
Rachel: Oh, like literally. 'cause you're nomadic.
Becca Rich: Like legit.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: I leave here the first sign of snow and I lived in Louisiana for eight years,
Rachel: wow. Yeah.
Becca Rich: So I really hadn't had winter
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: But it applies to life right?
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: We in society and norms we have a really hard time prioritizing and we have a really hard time putting stuff aside
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: to rest and to, maybe a lot of folks struggle with the little tasky admin shit like you were talking about. It takes a lot of internal safety and trust and dialogue to do admin
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: for a lot of folks
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: It's so much more fun to, you know, be the social butterfly and have all the new creative ideas, but actually bringing them to life or to nurture them
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: takes work and so,
Rachel: if we think about like the archetypes of the Zodiac, right? [00:44:00] Aligns perfectly we're talking Aries energy versus Virgo energy and we all contain all of these archetypes. And they're all strengths that we all have. But you know, Virgo does the harvest. And like we would not have food for the winter if the Virgos didn't bring in the harvest.
Right. And do, and put things to bed and gather it up and let things end and take stock, you know, and all that so that the Aries can begin with their like fun exuberance. It's all cyclical, like all of these archetypes and we all carry all of them. And it doesn't mean you're not being you, you know?
I feel like this happens like you said, like the lie of linear thinking is like, oh, this is the person I am and this is how I always will be. When like, that might not be what the season of, you know, the time of year dictates the time of the season of your life, the time of day, consistency just isn't an ideal I'm interested in, and it's just not real.
We have to allow ourselves to change. And [00:45:00] there are times where you're a party animal and there are times where you don't wanna see a person. And that's just being a human 'cause we are multitudes and we're carrying all of these things within us all the time.
Becca Rich: Yeah. So I feel like the luteal phase or the fall or whatever
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: season that you have to take stock and take care. Each season, I think has different needs when we acknowledge that each season has a different need, that's to me, truly consistent because you're just being
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: in tune with yourself
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: and your needs and giving them to yourself.
Rachel: Each season has a need. I love that. Yeah. And a way of being even, I would say, like a way of being in that season. Yeah. Right now we're recording this. We're like top of summer you know, energy's low, but relaxed and that's what this time of the year and of our lives requires.
Becca Rich: Yeah. And, and then the intersection and, and layered upon that of like I am right [00:46:00] now just done ovulating
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: going into my luteal phase
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: now and then you know, then we have our ages. Like I'm 30 and you said you're 45. And you know, we talked bit about like re-parenting, like I think of time as generational, like our parents.
And money is generational, right?
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: inner generaltion wealth is transferred down and how we're taught about these resources or we're taught parents by theirs
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: and then their parents by theirs. And so, it really is coming back to the cyclical nature of we, we can approach our age, our day to day, our monthly cycles, our weekly cycles.
Like there's so many cycles that we can play around with
Rachel: Mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: and see which ones we connect with and wanna sort of help guide us and help us you know, live.
Rachel: And I love how like the tool we always have [00:47:00] is to check in with the body, right? It's that present moment focus that like we all know we should do, but it really is right there. I've even taught my kids to do muscle testing, you know, do yes, no, and the body knows, right? Like do I need a milkshake right now?
Like your body knows actually, like my kids have been really successfully doing this and it's so good. They do it better than I do. It's so great and they remind me to do it.
Becca Rich: Sweet.
Rachel: actually the body knows when it's time to, to act, time to not, right. It actually, you can ask yourself pretty binary questions even on complex things.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: yeah.
Becca Rich: We get to just decide what external information we want
Rachel: mm-hmm.
Becca Rich: to help us along way
Rachel: Yeah and people and resources and community and all of that. Like if you're feeling alone with us, if you know, feeling shame about, oh, I'm not consistent, or shame about money. Like yeah we're not alone. We're [00:48:00] not alone. We're all doing the best we can.
Becca Rich: Yeah.
Rachel: I love your thoughts about the lies that we're told and the great lies that we tell ourselves about linear thinking and about finite resources and all of that.
And, yeah, I'm gonna think about that a lot. Thank you.
Becca Rich: Yeah, that was like a profound realization that I feel like
Rachel: Uh.
Becca Rich: has been like on the tip of my tongue for, for a while now
Rachel: Oh, cool. You said it
Becca Rich: thank you
Rachel: Lovely. Wait, are you a verbal processor? I'm a verbal processor,
Becca Rich: yeah.
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: yeah.
Rachel: why people like us make podcasts.
Becca Rich: yes. I'm like constantly voice memoing people
Rachel: Yeah.
Becca Rich: I just like stay, stay talking.
Rachel: Stay talking. Well, I hope we stay talking, Becca.
Becca Rich: Sweet. Thank you.
Rachel: that's great. Thank you so much.
Rachel: Wow. I loved my conversation with Becca. I'd never thought about the interplay of money and time thinking about those things cyclically before. [00:49:00] It gave me so much to think about. And since our conversation, I've already experienced a little more spaciousness in my own life and sort of noticing how cycles work.
I'm curious, what did this bring up for you? Does it help you think of time as a different kind of resource? One that is not linear. I'd love to hear your thoughts. You can leave me a voicemail, I'll answer on a future podcast or just answer. You directly go on over to moneyhealingclub.com/podcast and you can just leave your little old voicemail right there.
Don't worry. I'll make you sound good. I'd love to hear your thoughts and let me know what other topics would you like me to cover. Thanks for being here and I'll see you next time.