S2 E31:💰 Keep Calm, Carry On, Increase Your Rates With Sarah Mac
EPISODE SUMMARY
What's your stickiest money block? For many entrepreneurs and service providers, it's raising rates - even when we know we deserve more. In this episode of the Money Healing Club Podcast, Rachel(Certified Financial Therapist) speaks with Sarah Mac, money witch and business strategist, to tackle a listener's question about overcoming self-worth issues and cultural conditioning around charging what you're worth. They dive deep into the emotional blocks that keep us small, practical strategies for pricing with confidence, and why being uncomfortable might mean you're doing it right.
"Nobody will value your work more than you do. You have to be able to lead with that. You have to be able to celebrate yourself, and if you can't do that, don't expect other people to have the confidence to invest in you."
Key Takeaways:
Cultural conditioning (especially British "don't boast" mentality) creates deep blocks around money
Confidence comes through evidence and taking action, not just thinking about it
Your discomfort when raising rates often signals you're on the right track
Being a "permission slip" for others helps reframe individual pricing decisions as cultural change
You can't help everyone - and trying to often means helping no one well
About Sarah Mac: Sarah Mac is a creative brand strategist, money witch, and business astrologer who helps magical entrepreneurs have six-figure years. She's the author of "The Six Figure Creative" and host of the Creative Magic Club podcast, originally from the UK and now living in Los Angeles.
EPISODE BREAKDOWN
04:00 | The Post-It Note Strategy - Sarah's simple method for conditioning yourself to higher income goals
08:00 | Finding Your Stretch Number - How to identify pricing that feels exciting but believable
12:30 | Cultural Blocks: The British "Don't Boast" Problem - Why cultural conditioning makes money conversations extra challenging
18:00 | Becoming Your Own Best Client - The fastest path to confidence in your pricing and services
Resources Mentioned
"The Six Figure Creative: Heal Your Relationship With Money Doing Work You Love" by Sarah Mac
Creative Magic Club podcast - Sarah's show on pricing, money, and using astrology in business
Join the Conversation
Are you struggling to raise your rates? What cultural or family messages are holding you back from charging what you're worth? The Money Healing Club Podcast wants to hear your story! Click the big orange button and leave a voicemail: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
Your next listen:
For more insights on the deeper emotional work behind money blocks, check out our episode with Bari Tessler, the godmother of financial therapy,
Use code PODCAST for 50% off your first month and start your money healing process!
https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/club
Full transcript: https://www.moneyhealingclub.com/podcast
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[00:00:00]
Rachel: Hey, Money Healers. Welcome to the Money Healing Club podcast. I'm your host Rachel Duncan. I'm a certified financial therapist and art therapist, and I founded the Money Healing Club. It's a membership where I help people with big feelings get better with money from the inside out.
So you can imagine that I've done a lot of my own personal work about my money story and i'm so mindful about my thoughts, feelings, and behaviors that [00:00:30] come up with me around money. I really, doing my own work is really important, but there is one frontier that is the stickiest for me. It's the one that has taken the most work to process.
The hardest block for me to overcome that I'm actively working on is increasing my income. Spending got that pretty well handled. Debt I'm in a good emotional place with that. Investing I'm starting to like it, [00:01:00] but increasing income is the place where I feel the most blocks and it's rooted so strongly in how I was raised and my family's multi-generational experiences with money.
It's basically the script. Don't be greedy. So when I got a listener question about this very issue, I knew it was the perfect opportunity to bring in Sarah Mac to contribute her wisdom. .
Sarah Mac is a creative brand strategist, money [00:01:30] witch, and business astrologer who helps. Magical entrepreneurs have six figure years, more freedom and fun in life and business. Her zone of genius is clarifying your highest value offer and filling it with compatible soul clients through authentic storytelling guided by astrology.
She's an intuitive shark for the mindset that gets in the way of hitting your income goals. She's the author of the Six Figure Creative, Heal Your Relationship With Money, Doing the Work You Love, and host [00:02:00] of the Creative Magic Club podcast. She's originally from the UK and she now lives in Los Angeles.
This podcast is for education and entertainment purposes only. For help with your particular situation, please seek help from a licensed mental health, tax, finance, or legal professional. So now let's talk about all the things we don't usually say when we talk about raising our rates and making more money with Sarah Mac.
Speaker: [00:02:30] Hello Rachel. My name's Anna. Um, I live in England. I really enjoy your podcast and I've just heard the latest one, which I think was number 10, but it was about rescripting, and to do with family trauma. . And the person who was British that moved, their parents moved to to America. My, um, question is about rewriting a script with my sense of self worth and actually charging what I'm worth and having the confidence to do that.
I love your podcast. It's short. I [00:03:00] always get something outta it, but this one. Really shifted me in a way that so many books and so many things, including the Artist Way, hasn't done. And I think it was because you talked through how to rewrite that script and you also said how, you know when you've got it, you are getting near or you've got it right.
And those two things I've never had spelt out to me in a way that I really understood. So [00:03:30] your work is utterly invaluable and if there's anything, if I can, if you wanna use that, um, please do. Um, and I'm really loving your podcast. Thank you.
Rachel: Hey Sarah Mac. I have Sarah Mac here to help us sort of unpack this listener question and give this listener some guidance into how we can charge more, and especially when we're having some emotional blocks around charging more. So kick us off. Sarah, what would you say to this person?
Sarah Mac: [00:04:00] Yeah, I love this question and completely resonate.
Um, I was totally there when I first. Became an entrepreneur and I had to start picking my own prices and valuing myself and, you know, pitching to clients and it was terrifying. Terrifying. You know, my hands literally used to shake when I was sending out big invoices. And that's because we're so conditioned to feel like it's not safe to talk about money or to hold shame around asking for, for money.
Like [00:04:30] there's so much cultural conditioning I pretty much share my whole process in my book, but there's one particular strategy which I love, which I talk about in my book called the Post-It Note Strategy, where I would write my desired income goal on a post-it note, and I would look at it every day, and I would just take actions to get there every day, and obviously.
You know, take different actions until I was actually reaching it. And it took me a surprisingly short amount of [00:05:00] time to start hitting those income goals. Before I was earning hundreds of dollars an hour before, I was not even exchanging time for money because I'd launched a business with, you know, like scalable offerings and coaching programs and digital products.
So, but I was charging my first. Goal, and that was like $20 an hour when I was a freelance writer. And then it was 30 and 40, 50, you know, 60, a hundred, 200, 300. So, um, but before we go into [00:05:30] like asking for more money, I think part of the reason why we don't have confidence is because of the frameworks that we are basing our ask on.
And a lot of those existing frameworks are. Feeling shameful about asking for money, feeling like it's bad or wrong to ask for money. And so it's really helpful to work backwards from the other direction, which is like, what is your goal? You know, how much money do you wanna make in your business in the work that you're [00:06:00] doing?
And. Work backwards from there. You know, like what do you, how do you wanna get there? How do you want to get to your life desires and put a dollar amount on your life desires, you know, start not just with a random income goal, but what are your true desires for your life? Like, what is your vision? Where do you wanna live?
You know, how much is that gonna cost? What type of lifestyle do you desire to have? What is the actual dollar amount cost on that? Because you're gonna be so much more motivated by working towards a [00:06:30] desire rather than just an abstract number , sorry, you have something to
Rachel: say? No, no, no. I, I appreciate getting specific 'cause I think it's like, oh, I should charge more.
I need more. Well, like the universe does not know what that means. Is that a penny more? Like to get really, to get specific. And it could be that it, you're stair stepping, like you said, like maybe I'll go a little bit more and a little bit more. Maybe it's not, you're going from zero to 60 right now.
Whatever path work makes sense for you. But I do, I agree. I think that we've gotta get specific and then like with your Post-it note strategy, it also [00:07:00] seems to be like a sense of, I need to start getting really comfortable with this number. Mm-hmm. 'cause at first that number's gonna feel stretchy. I hope it feels stretchy.
We want it to feel a little stretchy, right? And then like, ah, but the more I'm like around that number that is feeling less new, less stretchy, this is feeling more just like a normal part of my life, right? As we kind of, um, condition ourselves to, to get into more comfort with a certain, let's say, let's say this person does a time for money type of thing, a fee for service, I don't know.[00:07:30]
But if it's, you know, increasing that you know, 10% or 10 pounds or something like that, you know, to really put that number there and sit with it. This is becoming more normal as I see it.
Sarah Mac: Yeah, and I, I actually have a really great exercise for kind of stretching your comfort zone around that number, which is to, so pick a number and then just like keep moving it up, you know, like add.
Yeah, like another 10 pounds, 50 pounds, a hundred pounds, and then keep going. You know? Add another a [00:08:00] hundred pounds, add an, add another a hundred pounds, and just see how it feels in your body and notice what comes up when you think about actually charging that amount. And write down some of the thoughts that come up.
Write down some of the feelings and then you can address them, you know, and you can really start to ask yourself like, oh, you know, maybe it feels really uncomfortable. Or it brings up a belief like no one can afford that. Okay, well you get to challenge that belief. Um, you know, [00:08:30] I used to have thoughts, like I remember, and I write about this in my book.
The first invoice I sent for $3,000 when I was a copywriter, and it was for website copy. And I had actual thoughts in my head, like, they are going to be mad, they're gonna be upset with me. Yeah. For asking this much. They're gonna be like, who are you to charge this much money? They're gonna be so outraged and so upset.
They're gonna give me a bad reputation and like my whole career is gonna come to an end, you know? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then they paid it within a matter [00:09:00] of hours. I wrote the website copy. They loved it. And the website was nominated for like a travel award. So it just goes to show how much rubbish our mind is gonna tell us, right?
And so really challenge all of those sorts and, you know, flip them. What if, what if there are people who are so happy to pay that? What if for the, you know, there are people out there who think that that's an absolute bargain. And then keep going and notice when it feels exciting. You know? Mm-hmm.
Is there a [00:09:30] number? Because you kind of wanna find that sweet spot where it feels really exciting for you to receive that money for your work, but you also believe that it's possible. I feel like that's a really good sweet spot to start with, because if you don't believe that anyone out there on the planet will pay that price, you are probably gonna sabotage in your sales and showing up and asking people to buy it and pitching it.
And at the same time, it can be too low. You know, like if you know that [00:10:00] doing your work for too little money is just gonna add more to your plate, it's not really gonna solve any of your financial problems, then you'll also resist showing up and selling it. So you wanna find that number that you would feel so thrilled to receive that amount and to, to do that work in exchange for that amount.
And the other thing I would say is that, you know, obviously, I don't know if you are like you have a job or you're an entrepreneur, but. If you're an entrepreneur, and even if it's, you know, like a contract, like you always [00:10:30] have the power to walk away and to ask for more. You know, there's always gonna be another client, there's always gonna be another opportunity.
And so you can take something at certain price and then you can raise your price for the next opportunity, you know? Yeah. Like, so if you are taking clients, you can take one client at a price and, and you know, and I've done this a lot with like new offers and services. I did this. When I first launched my coaching business, so I built confidence in what I was selling by just doing it first and [00:11:00] doing it for free.
I did that before I launched into mindset coaching. I did it again more recently when I integrated astrology into like the content strategy and money mindset. Work that I was doing with clients, I would give away like bonuses and freebies to, to clients with my existing offers to really test my methods.
And then when I had real clarity around that and real confidence and I had some testimonials, then I started to pitch offerings around these new things. And you know, we [00:11:30] always have imposter syndrome when we are doing things that we haven't done before.
Rachel: Yeah.
Sarah Mac: And so confidence comes through just evidence and building action and taking action.
So I'm a big believer in following the path of least resistance and just getting it out there and working with people as quickly as you can and knowing that, you know, it's okay to charge a little bit lower in the beginning if that feels easier for you to just get people in the door because that's gonna build confidence,
Rachel: the barrier to entry.
Yeah. If you just start somewhere. [00:12:00] Start there. And it can be difficult to raise prices with a client or customer that is already accustomed to certain. Fix certain price or as a brand new person doesn't know your history, and you can go into it with a fresh kind of boundary. And I still think it can be important to have that conversation of raising prices with existing clients.
I think it's a, you know, it's a different experience, a different process, but to, hey, every new client you get in, it's gonna be this rate. They don't know what you charge before. And that can be a good way to start [00:12:30] building that up and start to kinda, um, expand into a higher rate. Okay. So. I have a question because one of the reasons I was excited to show you this voicemail is that she's from England and I know you are and, okay.
My mom is from England. I dunno if I told you this. My mom, my mom grew up in Luton, but she lived in the States a long time. I'm born here and there is, I'm wondering if some of the blocks for this person is this sort of, um, don't boast. I, you know, I'm always curious about the struggles [00:13:00] we have, so she might be feeling.
You know, whatever industry she's in. Oh, other people charge more. I should charge more. I could charge more. But is there, you know, maybe a cultural layer of how that looks. I mean, I think that happens in the states too. And so I'm wondering as a Brit if you have any thoughts about how that the, the culture puts a layer on them.
Sarah Mac: Yeah, I think everybody spot on with that. And it's funny 'cause I was recently talking to another British friend who's moved to the US and she was saying how she recently went on hormone therapy [00:13:30] and she was like, I've got American level confidence now. And I was like, testosterone people. Yeah.
Yeah and no, it's pretty true. I think British culture is a lot more prudish.
Rachel: Just
Sarah Mac: came in and, It's, there's a lot more of like sweeping things under the rug, you know? And like not wanting to rock the boat, not wanting to upset people, wanting to keep the status [00:14:00] quo, stiff up a lip and all that. So I think it's a really important reminder that when you want to create change in your relationship with money, it is a taboo topic.
And remembering that any of us, particularly women and minority cultures, um, who haven't historically had a lot of access to power and wealth. We are shifting centuries, old paradigms. When we're choosing to do this work, which is, it's [00:14:30] hard 'cause It is. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know? And no one, no one gave us these skills.
No one taught us these lessons. Our parents, our grandparents didn't have access to a lot of the knowledge that we have now, which is why it feels so uncomfortable and triggering and a lot of the time it feels unsafe. Right. So I think we have to remember that that's the cost of what it is that we want.
So the cost of not having what we want is keeping everyone's approval, keeping everybody nice and comfortable, keeping everything the same it is [00:15:00] as it is not rocking the boat and smothering and suppressing all of your desires and your beautiful dreams and all of the things that you could be capable of in this lifetime.
So the cost of being able to realize those things and start to make a change is. Potentially making people uncomfortable, getting extremely uncomfortable, yourself, doing things that are different, rocking the boat, potentially upsetting people, hearing no, maybe getting pushback, getting criticism, getting judgment.
A lot of these things might not ever happen, but it [00:15:30] is gonna feel uncomfortable. So, and it might,
Rachel: yeah. And they also might, I've recently had a conversation with someone, I was like, oh, that your services are too expensive and that's a hard thing to sit in. And I of course had a part like, oh, am I gonna offer a discount or something. And that's an old part of me. 'cause I, I know for myself, when I discount my services, I discount my worth and I don't do as good of work. And that's an interesting thing. And I've like, especially with other therapists that I know that I often also like often talk to 'em.
When's the last time you [00:16:00] changed your rates or raised your rates? Um, is that we do better work. When we charge more, and that a lot of folks don't quite believe that until they do it. Like, oh yeah, I'm a professional. I'm getting a professional rate. I actually do better work. So it's win-win, the client gets a better experience and you are remunerated in a more, uh, more professional level, let's say.
Sarah Mac: Yeah, and I think to build off what you said earlier about. You know, maybe clients who are working with you at existing rates, like you have to be willing to let them go. [00:16:30] You have to be willing to hear no. And yeah, I'm not gonna renew my package. And it takes a lot of courage to do that because it means stepping into the void of not knowing who your next clients are.
Not knowing if someone is gonna buy a price point that you've never sold out before, but you are never gonna get the answer to that unless you try it. Um. Yeah. And I've, I've definitely had that experience, you know, as I've continued to raise my rates higher and higher, it's like, yeah, I get much less inquiries.
Mm-hmm. But I [00:17:00] still am able to attract people who are amazing to work with and who really value my work. And I think one of the also. You know, to build on what you said about people and trying to negotiate with you. Obviously when you're an entrepreneur and you're picking your prices, um, that's always an option.
And so I found it really, really helpful in this process where I haven't, when I haven't felt super confident or clear, um, to just make a decision, you know, [00:17:30] and again, like working backwards, like what is my income goal for this income stream? And how do I want to get there and what do my prices need to be in order to get there without working a hundred hour weeks, you know, and being like, these are my prices, and really standing by them
and then you actually, you know, a big part of this conversation around confidence and around like selling and pitching and not being a prude. That's a necessary skillset. Like nobody will value you your work [00:18:00] more than you do. And that was the number one thing I had to do as I got into you know, doing the work that I was passionate about and making money from it.
And that's, well, one of the number one things I, I do with clients is you have to sit down and do almost like an extended resume and put down on paper. Why is working with me valuable? You know, what are all of the things that I bring, that I've lived through? My wisdom, my skills, my education, the results that I have created in my own [00:18:30] life?
You have to be very well versed on that because you have to be able to lead with that. You have to be able to celebrate yourself and , if you can't do that, don't expect other people to have the confidence to invest in you. So I would say start there, you know, and always when I tell clients to do that.
Like so much will shift and you will actually have more confidence when you see it on paper, how much you bring to the table when someone has your time and they get to benefit from your work. And then being really, really, really [00:19:00] clear what are the outcomes that people are gonna get from your work? And you know, doing some of that work around your positioning and your storytelling and your messaging.
Even if you don't have an online brand, just in the, the conversations that you have with people when you are pitching your work and knowing what is it that people actually want when they're hiring somebody like you? What are their top burning desires? And um, and what is the language that they're actually using, you know, to describe [00:19:30] that.
'cause I think where a lot of people go wrong is you're like, do my breath work that's gonna help you feel more calm. It's like, great. That's usually not what people are getting up in the morning, being like, oh, I have a burning desire to do breath work to feel more calm. It's like, no, they're thinking about their problems.
They're thinking about their desires that they're working towards or the problems that they're trying to solve. So speak to them in their language and get really good at, serving people and solving their problems and being able to have those conversations. And then you'll become [00:20:00] invaluable and you can charge anything you want.
Rachel: I think and, and it is a process, you're not gonna suddenly get there. I do think there's a lot of protective parts of us, you know, cultural specific to our families that come up. And one thing that I think about a lot is, um, well, something that comes from my, my grad school training, which is how is the problem, the solution?
So let's say, yeah, so the problem is. I don't charge enough for me to live on this. I'm making that up. That's not what the person said. But let's say I don't charge enough for me to live on. I don't have enough [00:20:30] money. That's the problem. So how is that actually the solution? And just like you said, well, it keeps me small, it keeps me liked, it keeps me accepted.
And in those ways, maybe they're working. It keeps me culturally congruent. I am like my family, right? Or whatever it is. So I think it's like sometimes it can be first really important to identify why am I charging what I'm charging? And, and I see three, three reasons. Usually people charge what they [00:21:00] charge.
Tell, tell me if you can think of more. So like one, it's what someone else is charging, right? Mm-hmm. I have a friend who's charging that. Right? Okay. So, and that's okay. I think it's good to do some research what's out there. Okay. So that can be one anchor point. Another is what have I paid for something similar myself?
And that one can be tricky because then when you need to raise your fees, you're like, well, I wouldn't pay that. So that's a really tricky one to base your fee on because then it kind of blocks you in about like, well, I wouldn't pay for that. [00:21:30] And then we have a whole other conversation of like, why wouldn't you pay for that?
And then third, it's like, that's just the random place I started and I've been too afraid to change it . so I kind of usually see like one aspect, I've seen this in myself too, of how we start our pricing. And I think it's worth saying, where does that keep me? What is the part of me that it wants to stay small and needs to stay small and needs to stay liked and safe?
Because you're absolutely right. As we [00:22:00] increase rates or change our prices, you will likely face more possible rejection. Like it's gonna shift things. It just, you, we can't say it won't . so like, I wonder if those are kind of like some scripts we can even work with or how would you imagine like, okay, what's the existing script this person has and how can we help her kind of rewrite the script that feels like culturally congruent being a Brit and you know, being a woman in this world and we don't know what she does for work, but, or her business.
But, um, I wonder what your thoughts [00:22:30] are.
Sarah Mac: Yeah, I think something that has really helped me is. Um, you know, 'cause it's almost like the secondary benefit of the work that we do, right? And thinking about those like bigger ripple effects. So obviously you wanna do this work 'cause you wanna help people and you wanna make money to benefit your own life.
But when you think of the, the wider benefits of that, especially when it comes to lineage, um, and evolution and improving our culture [00:23:00] is like, well, what does it mean when somebody like you. Gets to do this work and gets to be really well paid for it. Like you become a permission slip for all of the other people in your life and in your world and in your culture, who probably similarly to you, have felt really uncomfortable or trapped around their current situation or who have felt like they.
Don't have permission or it's hard or it's not socially acceptable or it's somehow dangerous [00:23:30] to be fully expressed in your work and to be really well paid. And so I think it really helps to be, to take on the identity of like a cultural revolutionary. And I think that can kind of. Be a bit of a shield for some of the pushback to know that like, yeah, I'm, I'm a trailblazer.
I'm cutting a new path. I'm like in the jungle with my machete, and sometimes I'm gonna get scraped. Sometimes it's gonna feel unclear and confusing and [00:24:00] hard, and that's okay because others are gonna be able to walk along the path that I'm, that I'm blazing and. So, and maybe that helps and maybe it doesn't.
You know, I think people are driven by different things where it's like, I am, me being abundantly well paid for the work that I love to do, paves the way for future generations to have an easier time doing it, and for people in my community to have an easier time doing it for themselves too.
Rachel: I love this idea.
Maybe this is a script for this person. I [00:24:30] love, I am the permission slip, I am the change maker to improve my people's security, to increase the sense of freedom in my community. Like I am that change maker. I am the permission slip. So I wonder if that, I love that. You know, like, yeah, if the listeners listening, you know, kind of like mull that over.
Does that start to direct us? It kind of like and, and it's okay if it feels stretchy, like our, if any of us who are [00:25:00] committed to growth and personal growth, part of this is the discomfort. Am I the person who can sit in some discomfort? Is this something I would advocate in other parts of my life? Um, you know, is there a place where I, that's the kind of person actually I am in other aspects, is to stretch a little bit.
And I would encourage that. Another thing I have not quite reconciled or I'm always still working on. Is, well then there are people I can't help who I wanna help. Mm-hmm. And that, and that's a truth. That is just simply a [00:25:30] truth. Um, and I'm curious how, how that sits with you. How do you process that idea?
Yeah. That you are gonna have to say no. Like not only will you be rejected, but you're gonna have to reject others by setting these rates.
Sarah Mac: Yeah. I think this is really helpful, especially for big hearted. People who care, you know? Yeah. Usually when we are, we are doing some type of service based work. We really do care.
And um, and I do think it's one of the best hacks to get out of our own head [00:26:00] and get out of our limiting perceptions is to really hyperfocus on others. And so I think that's really helpful. It's like, oh, I'm not just doing this for me, I'm doing it for others in my community. And Yeah, and I think it is really important to remember like if we are not financially sustained in the work that we do, then yeah, there are gonna be people that we can't impact because it's going to not be sustainable.
You know? [00:26:30] It's like we've chosen to do this work in the world because we think it's really important. And so if we don't figure out a way to be supported and financially sustained to be able to continue to grow our work and our impact, it's not gonna last. You know, like, think about all the entrepreneurs who, um, think about like just going back and getting a corporate job.
Think about all of the, the clients that they could have been serving in their work that they could have been creating transformations for. You [00:27:00] know, not that I'm judging that decision, obviously. There's right, right things and wrong things for different people at different times. But if you are really feeling the pull and really feeling the call to do the work, then I believe that like our desires are a part of the ecosystem and we're meant to do it.
You know, like bumblebees have a desire to go and like sniff flowers and like in doing that they are scattering the pollen and allowing more flowers to percolate. It's like. There's a wider purpose to the things that we are drawn to doing, and we [00:27:30] don't obviously have a lot of control over those things.
And it doesn't really matter that we don't have control over those things, but we just have to trust that if we have a desire for something, that it serves an important purpose in our evolution. And yeah, and then around the discomfort, like one of the main belief shifts for me that I really was like repetitive with is i'm comfortable being uncomfortable. And just getting used to being there every single day. And now, you know, a lot of the things that used to be super [00:28:00] uncomfortable for me are really comfortable for me just because that comes through exposure and repetition. So if I ever catch myself in a place where I'm like, ah, I feel so comfortable in my business and my life and my work, I'm like, uhoh alarm bells like gotta get uncomfortable because.
We are always growing, you know, and if you wanna get to new goals in different places, you are going to be a little bit uncomfortable every day. But you can really normalize that, you know, and it doesn't mean you're always like freaking out and spiraling or like having a panic attack. [00:28:30] Um. I've forgotten what your initial question was.
Rachel: No, no, no. I, I think you're right on. It's like, okay, well we can't help everyone and we have that desire and it's okay to set boundaries, you know, and boundary. We haven't said the B word yet, but I think that's what we're talking about. And setting boundaries can have discomfort. That's usually the nature of it.
And you know, it's a boundary when there's some discomfort. And I think also as entrepreneurs, we have this. Great opportunity to create free content that is win-win. You know, like when [00:29:00] I started producing this podcast actually that started really helping me feel like I can reach more folks, help more people through this very intimate format, um, and can help people in different ways.
And in that it's, it, that's my gift. And I have other services, other experiences that are paid and. If folks are not in the place where they can afford it, that's okay. They can listen to the podcast and that has started to, that really started to shift things for me in terms of not turning [00:29:30] people away.
Then I don't feel like I'm turning anyone away. 'cause anyone can listen to the podcast and I wonder if this person is an entrepreneur and if they're feeling a little hung up on that, you know, make a beautiful, generous, free offer that it does not involve your time. Um, so that it's, it's. That can be so generative and so win-win with the free stuff, like I've got some podcasts I listen to, I feel very connected to these people and you know, and I think it, you can still help so much in all these other channels.
It doesn't have to be your [00:30:00] time.
Sarah Mac: Yeah. And I will say this is such a common belief that I think a lot of empathetic creators and service based entrepreneurs come into their work with, which is this illusion that we can help everybody. Yeah. Because we absolutely can't. And you know, even the concept of your, your ideal client or like your dream client within that, there's, so it gets really, really niche.
You know, like you can be doing the exact same work [00:30:30] at like a hundred dollars more an hour and. You know, you can, we get really attached to our clients too, right? You're like, oh my God, if I raise my price, this person isn't gonna work with me. And I love working with them, and they're such a dream client.
It's like, no, they're not a dream client. Your dream client is all of the good things about the people that you love to serve, but they are happy and able and willing to pay you the prices that you desire to receive. Like that is your true dream client. And that's always gonna evolve and I've had enough [00:31:00] experiences in my like eight years of entrepreneurship to know that you can try really, really hard to help someone.
But if they're not ready to be helped, if they're not ready and willing to invest in themselves and to do the work and to really prioritize the work for themselves that you help them with, they're not gonna create the results and they're not gonna create the transformation. And so when you think about it from that top down perspective, you know, I always like to think of myself as like a cog in my environment, [00:31:30] like what is the absolute best use of my time and energy that's gonna have the biggest ripple effect. And it's not me running around trying to help so many people and not really doing a good job of helping them and not really helping them create true transformation and result.
It's a far better investment of my time. And contribution to the culture to really hone in on who are the people that I can truly help [00:32:00] the most so that when they finish the work with me, they have such, so much, uh, so much positive shift in their life, that the ripple effect of that is then gonna go and spill over and impact more people.
So when you think about it like that, it makes so much more sense to really hone in on what you are best at. Hyper-focus on the people who truly are best positioned to receive that and to take whatever it is you have [00:32:30] to offer and run with it. That's how you build a successful business. You know, not by getting in arguments with people about your prices or like undercutting competition for the sake of booking another client to really value what you have to bring, pricing it properly.
In a way that makes sense with your business model and your time and your capacity in the way you want to run your business. Not just now, but for the long term and building the skills to be able to fill, those [00:33:00] spaces consistently.
Rachel: That's so true. It's such a stretchy bridge to get there, and I, I feel like, I think we've given this person so much good guidance for like, okay, you can stair step into it or you can go full hog.
Like there is no, there's no one right way to do this, but if you feel uncomfortable, that probably means you're doing it right. Not right. Because sometimes we say, oh, that's not comfortable. That doesn't feel right. And if we're a sensitive person, we pull back and i'm with you. I think that as we step into raising [00:33:30] our rates, it's uncomfortable.
We do better work. We start attracting different folks. It starts to really clarify what you're good at, I think. And you can still be, you know, abundant in giving, in your offers of your free offers. I mean, this is the age for it, you know, like it's okay. And to be, to step into this place where I cannot help everyone.
'cause actually, like no one benefits from a burned out healer. No one benefits from a burned out service provider. And so to do what you do very well with a [00:34:00] few people is totally okay. That's actually the way, that's a wonderful thing. That's a wonderful thing to become an expert at that thing and help them so well, like it's, if, if that is the kind of work this person does, does, but even if it's creative work, right?
A few of these clients at a time, you're gonna do such better work for them and probably start thinking, you know, maybe more creatively.
Sarah Mac: Okay. I have one nugget, which I feel like is the most valuable advice I have ever been given. [00:34:30] Because we're talking about confidence, right? So the, the fastest path to confidence, which leads to sales more easily than ever before, is to be a living embodiment of the work that you offer.
Like this is like sales and marketing hack the gold hack, which it isn't always. It's so simple, and when you do it, it makes everything else so much easier. But obviously it can be hard to do because we're coming up against a lot of self-judgment, [00:35:00] self-criticism, imposter syndrome. So this isn't, you need to be perfect and you need to never be making a mistake or facing a challenge in the work that you do like quite the contrary, it's really like being your own best client. So imagine you are your client, like have a session with yourself every day. What would you advise? You know, what would your suggestion be? What would you give them to work with?
And do that for yourself and then it's gonna [00:35:30] be so easy for you to talk about your work, to be excited about the value that's available to your clients. And it's gonna be really obvious because the easiest thing to sell is the things that you embody, you know?
Rachel: I love it. It also puts you in the client's shoes.
Mm-hmm. Like, oh yeah, this part, like I really understand that discomfort or to really understand the process. 'cause I think it can be hard when we've spent a long time in our niche and we know it very well. Sometimes I trip up in this like, oh, I need to get back to the [00:36:00] basics of money. And I, and I can't forget that because sometimes I'm like down the road.
And to constantly be pulled back to the beginning actually by being your own best client is, is to. Really experience that experience, which is gonna help you put yourself in their shoes. And actually meeting a client at point A at that zero mark, instead of I'm over here, five marks down, you know? Then they're like, well, I can't ever get there.
And so to constantly be pulling back to where it starts will make your work [00:36:30] better. I think that's great advice.
Sarah Mac: Yeah. And then like you said, because you are in the mindset of a client who is like you, and this is a, a sales storytelling hack that to attract higher paying clients is you know, when you wanna raise your prices, when you wanna have more impact, you actually do want to attract more ambitious clients, right?
It's like you stepping into your ambition. Because you are ambitious, right? Like this, this conversation is a very ambitious conversation. It's like, [00:37:00] how do I earn significantly more money? How do I break the cycle? How do I, you know, honor and my, the value that I bring, how do I create a really abundant life?
Is to acknowledge how ambitious you are. And so the types of conversations you would have with yourself as a client, they're gonna be those pretty high level, ambitious conversations of you really doing your best work. So when you lead with that. In your pitches, in your marketing, in your content, you are gonna attract people who resonate with [00:37:30] that.
So you are gonna attract people who really wanna have those conversations with you, who are really in to doing the type of work that you do, in the way that you do it. And that's naturally gonna start to happen. And that was like a huge shift for me when I, you know, started stepping into high ticket and I had so many limiting beliefs.
'cause you know, my target market is creatives and I'm like, oh, all my creative friends don't have any money. They're all broke. They don't like to invest in themselves. Right? But that was a problem that I really wanted to solve. I really believe that when creative [00:38:00] people have more money, you know, all of our heart and our ideas and our creativity, it, it will change the culture and it will change the world and it will solve so many of the problems that we face today collectively.
And then I realized that like I am creative and I am really ambitious. And I even when I was like broke on paper, I found ways to invest in myself and I took risks and I took leaps and I created opportunities and I really prioritized. My transformation and my results and the things that I desired. [00:38:30] And so that was a huge breakthrough for me of like, oh yeah, there are plenty of people that I would love to help who maybe aren't in the mindset to be able to invest or to prioritize this type of work, but there are people out there like me, like if I exist, other people like me exist.
And so I get to show up and create opportunities for those people and call them forward and that was really the turning point for me when I started having, you know, 10 and 20 K months. I had my first six figure year and continue to have six figure years [00:39:00] and it's so important that belief that there are people out there.
Who value transformation and who love investing in themselves. Like I love to invest in myself and to do and to do work and improve myself and to hit my goals and, you know, and, and to really recognize those aspects within you and speak to what you know about, about that, to attract those people.
Rachel: The stretch is real.
Yeah. This is not just good for your clients and for your money. It's also good [00:39:30] for you. In, in a lot of ways, and I think, you know, for a lot of the folks, well, where I come from, I think a lot of folks I work with are really concerned about, you know, living people out and the social justice aspect and stuff like that.
And I think then we jump to like, oh, I'll do sliding scale, or Oh, I'll offer, you know, low ticket stuff. And I, and I really understand that, but that's not the only way to give. Like you said, like, like there is a ripple effect and there are other just like flat out monetary ways to give that are more in your [00:40:00] control.
Mm-hmm. Like I'll contribute a certain portion of my profits towards this cause like that for me has a lot more boundary to it. I'm a little bit more in control of it and instead of discounting my worth, you know, to other things. So I think that we can get creative also if. You know, if you'd like to redistribute some wealth, if you'd like to have a bigger impact, there's a lot of ways to do that that aren't necessarily discounting your work.
And I, I'll share a little bit about the club. It used to be when people would message me and [00:40:30] say, I have no money. I really wanna join the club. I think this would really help me. I would give them free access and by and large, they didn't participate.
Sarah Mac: Yeah.
Rachel: And I was like, oh, this is what everyone's talking about.
You know? I mm-hmm. I was so surprised because I was asked, but, and I gotta say, I stopped doing that. And part part of that was when I started this podcast, 'cause I was like, well, you've got this, this is a great thing for you to still be part of this work and, and, and get a lot of benefit out of it. But once I kind of set that boundary, I think [00:41:00] it.
It shifted the, the, the experience of the club. Mm-hmm. And for me, like, you know, knowing that people were there because they really wanted to be there and they have committed to the club. And so, yeah. No more freebies. And that was a big shift for me. And that was recent. So like, we're constantly in this, um.
In this growth of like, how do we grow into this? 'cause it's not just about income, it's also like the boundaries that it sets and the expectation that it sets and the commitment level for [00:41:30] both you and your clients. It really, it does impact it. It's kind of amazing.
Sarah Mac: Yeah. I love that. And sometimes we just have to go through that to learn that lesson.
Yep. For it to, for it to really be embodied, you know? And I think the wider conversation around pricing. Is really, um, which again, I think is so helpful when we're in our head or we're feeling nervous, is to again, just stop focusing on us and to focus on who we serve and to ask. How can I make this the most powerful [00:42:00] result?
How can I make this the most valuable offer for the people who are gonna buy it? And you know, obviously sometimes you have clients who invest in low ticket things and they go full out and they do all the work and they get in incredible results. But as a general rule, and, and this is just what happens when you invest more money, right?
Is you have less money to invest in other things, so it, it very naturally prioritizes your focus on the thing that you've invested in. [00:42:30] And that's super powerful and obviously again, coming back to what you said about what will set you up to be able to do your best work, to really be able to pour into you and support the people that you're serving.
Like what is that dollar amount that will, you know, allow you to pay for the food that you want, the gym membership, that you want to have the spaciousness in your schedule to like actually take care of yourself so that you're not frazzled and burnt out when you show up to do the work. All of these things factor into your business model, and you have to make those decisions [00:43:00] based on what you want.
And Yeah, and I think it's really fun to design our offers in that way, you know? And like, how can I make this the best experience? Like what would it take if there was like no holds barred? I really got to give people the exact experience that will get them exactly what they want in a really powerful and fun way.
What would it look like for me to deliver that? And what feels like an appropriate price tag for that, because when we design our [00:43:30] offers in that way, like nothing's gonna sell better than your own confidence and conviction in your work. This is the truth, right? This sells more than the perfect strategic copywriting.
This sells more than the perfect sales funnel or like the biggest audience. It truly is your clarity and your conviction and your passion and your confidence in the offer that you are selling. So whatever it is you have to do. To get to that place, to be so excited [00:44:00] about what it is that you are sharing.
Like that is gonna be the thing that fills more easily with the right people than absolutely anything else. And obviously making sure that you are, you give people all the information they need to know to trust that you are the right person to get them there. You know, you have to be able to celebrate yourself.
You have to be able to talk about your successes and your results. You also have to talk about, you know, the truth of the challenges that you face and also your methods and the way that you deliver the result so that people have [00:44:30] all the information they know that they need to make that confident buying decision.
Mm-hmm.
Rachel: And if you feel wobbly, it's 'cause it's new. Like it doesn't mean you're doing it wrong or you are kind of maybe going against your cultural expectations. And I keep thinking I'm okay. If you're feeling wobbly, it's 'cause you're the permission slip. You're being the permission slip and people are watching you.
And if you're a woman, you got little girls watching you who are like, oh look, look at what she's doing. So it's um. Yeah, [00:45:00] I'm, I, I feel like I could listen to you say that again and again. 'cause it is this, we're advancing us and our people by doing really aligned work really confidently. And I'll say if there's a little element of faking it, I also think it's like, not fake it till you make it.
'cause we don't want anyone to be like inauthentic. But if you're, you know, have an offer and you're raising your price and you're like, oh, just sit with that sweet little discomfort and go for it. [00:45:30] And, and make sure that you've got all the other aspects of your care worked out, right? You're eating well, you're sleeping well, you've got your friends that you're really supported as much as possible, especially when you're launching into a new thing or raising a rate so that you're not hinging your confidence on this rate or whether or not people will buy that you have lots of other ways that you're validated in this world and not just this one. 'Cause it's different.
Sarah Mac: Yeah. And yeah, I will say again, like confidence is a skill. And I found one of the [00:46:00] things that leads to confidence the fastest is actually, um, like really pouring into yourself and also giving yourself time to play. Because when we play, we, we get really present. You know, it's like that childlike play, which often it's really easy to kind of push to the side, especially when we're in business and we're trying to make more money and we're just trying to be an adult and get everything done.
You were like, oh, this isn't important. This isn't gonna lead to me getting paid. This is not on the [00:46:30] priority list, which is why I made it like a consistent daily commitment, even for five, 10 minutes to just give myself some playtime. And for me, that's like playing guitar and singing just because I love it.
Not for anyone else not to try and master a song, not to try and like build a skillset or I used to hula hoop or you know, just like put on a song that I love dancing to. Yes. Or do some like stream of consciousness journaling, but nothing too like trying to get to a result because you know, anything creative, whether it's like [00:47:00] embroidery, beading, like cooking, how can you, how can you turn something into a little play portal?
Because when we are in that space with ourself, we channel our best ideas. We feel good about who we are. We're reminded how powerful we are to create something from nothing. And that confidence really, you know, can support us when we are doing those stretchy things where we feel a little bit wobbly and you know, our creativity, it's our superpower.
Like, yeah, I would say like the most important thing for you to take away [00:47:30] from this conversation. Is to trust yourself and to trust your desires. Right? Your desires, they're very unique to us. There are some people who don't care about making more money. They don't care about doing the work that you do.
And so the fact that this is a burning desire for you, that it, it won't go away, that's a signpost. That this is meant for you, that you're capable of doing it, and that you have absolutely everything you need to make it happen one step at a time. So to really trust yourself and let it be [00:48:00] fun, you know?
Yeah. Bring as much fun and play into the process as possible
Rachel: and Totally. And yeah, I often, I recommend like for my club members and clients, that they bring in a pleasure prac. I call it pleasure practice. I love play portal. It's all really good, really good alliteration. But like that, there's just something where you feel like a human being for a few minutes a day and play can bring us there so often.
'cause it brings us to the present moment. And it's also really important for burnout prevention. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, because that, 'cause actually when we play, we're signaling safety. Mm-hmm. [00:48:30] And so like it's doing so much more. It's not a nice to have, it is a got to have to be able to get through the week that has so many ups and downs with stresses.
So I love that the play portal. This has been such a helpful conversation. I feel like I could listen to it again and again. I hope our listener gets some great, um, confidence boosting ideas as well as like the depth and understanding about why this is so high hard. Why? It's easier said than done to just raise your rates.
Like I think we can, we can both really understand why there's a [00:49:00] lot going on there. Um, so Sarah, could you tell us a little more about how people can find your work and what you'd like to share with them?
Sarah Mac: Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been really fun. Um, I also have a podcast, it's called Creative Magic Club, where I talk a lot about a lot, all the things we've been talking about today, pricing, money, content building a brand, telling your story, doing more of the work that you love in the world, and also using astrology as a tool to really have confidence and clarity in your work as you step out there and you know, raise your rates [00:49:30] and charge more for what you're doing. I have my book, which is available on Amazon everywhere, where I share my full story of how I doubled my income two years in a row, and all of the, the journal prompts and the practices that it took for me to get there. And that's called the Six Figure Creative Heal Your Relationship With Money Doing Work You Love.
My name is Sarah Mac and, and, um, yeah, please. Keep in touch. If you can find me in all of my socials on, uh, via my website with sarahmac.com. I'm on Instagram at Sarah Mac Magic. I would love to hear how this [00:50:00] landed for the person who wrote in, please connect and let me know.
I'm a safe space to be talking about money, so let's keep talking about it.
Rachel: More of that, and we both have clubs. I love that we're both like clubs, you know? It is just like this joining and being part of a membership. Well, thank you so much, Sarah.
It's been a great conversation.
Sarah Mac: Thank you, Rachel.
Rachel: If this conversation has opened up for you some new channels to receive money, to increase rates, to [00:50:30] think about your income goals in new ways. Let me know did it inspire any steps toward action? You can leave me a voicemail at moneyhealingclub.com/podcast.
There's a big orange button. You can leave me a voicemail from your phone or browser. Don't worry. I'll make you sound good. And also you could just share a story. It doesn't have to be a question. Is there a little win that you can't celebrate anywhere else? I would love, love, love to hear it.
We all grow when we hear each other talk [00:51:00] about money in very real ways.
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